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PCM LTD issued PCM even though parked in own space, Any advice greatly appreciated.
Peapoduk
post Thu, 26 Apr 2018 - 07:16
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Hello all, a newbie here. Any help and advice would be greatly appreciated.

I know this has probably been covered before but after a bit of reading I am little confused on what my course of action should be whether to ignore or communicate again with them.

I received a PCM last week. The background is that our management housing agency engaged PCM Ltd to manage our parking garage. This was because there was a lot of parking issues with non residents parking in spaces not allocated to them. Access to the parking garage is via key fob but the gate doesn't always close due to some residents messing with it.

We didn't receive a letter from the managing agent only a letter from PCM saying that they had been engaged by the managing agent and permits were given. I've lived here for 5 years and there was no parking permit system until last November.

To be honest I didn't question it as last year my brain was not fully with it, had a really prem baby so I was always coming and going to the hospital.

Anyways sorry I'm dithering I had my permit on my dashboard and when I closed the door it fell off. I didn't notice as I was distracted by my bubba crying. So when I came back to the car I saw the PCM and panicked so immediately like a fool I know appealed and revealed I was the driver. Naively thinking it was an honest mistake as I have rights to my space e.g. it's in my lease and it clearly states my parking space number and no where does it say about a parking permit.

So obviously my appeal was denied and they have said I could appeal to IAS.

Now I know now I should have done my homework and not engaged with them because they would have needed to send me a notice to driver (I think?)

I've been looking on MSE and parking prankster and a lot of what people have said is to ignore now after reading here there is advice I should engage with IAS? On the signs it says the managing agent has no sway on PCM being cancelled.

I'm not sure what to do and with a small bubba my anxiety levels have reached through the roof.

Any advice or help would be so gratefully appreciated.

Best wishes,

Peapoduk

This post has been edited by Peapoduk: Thu, 26 Apr 2018 - 07:26
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post Thu, 26 Apr 2018 - 07:16
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emanresu
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 06:25
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QUOTE
How do I stop them ticketing my car if the housing management company have already told them to bog off from my space.

Could I bring a case against PCM for trespass?


Yes, you seek an injunction at their cost plus your own damages. Warn them first but follow through.

This site was suggested over on MSE https://www.clerksroom.com/ They supply what are called "baby barristers". Fully qualified but early in their careers. They do carry a full set of teeth though.

This post has been edited by emanresu: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 06:27


--------------------
Where there is a claim - there is a counterclaim.
Are Parking companies misusing your personal data or interfering with your lease? Counterclaims are only £25. Makes them sit up and take notice. For leaseholds, join in the Managing agents too. Since the purpose of these claims is to frighten you, give them something to be frightened of.
Subject Access Requests to the DVLA?Find out who accessed your data and when. Try SubjectAccess.Requests@dvla.gsi.gov.uk. [Apologies if it does not work]
Double Dip / ANPR FaultsThe BPA Report on ANPR Double Dips is here. Ideal case for a counterclaim (see above).
Daily Court List. See who is doing what and where here
Printing and posting Witness Statements. Easy and cheap way DoxDirect
What is court like. A District Judge's view
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 07:34
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Indeed, you also include the housing management company in the injunction, as they are the principal
You warn them, making it a LBA. You also claim for trespass against your car AND trespass against your space AND tortious interference with your lease. Statt at £500 for that.
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Eljayjay
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 07:54
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Below is an untried counterclaim written for someone else but including the dates and arithmetic based on what you have told me in the past.

It is untried because the hearing date in the other case has not yet been set. It does no doubt need some fleshing out because, being a counterclaim, it was preceded by a statement of defence containing more details.

If you follow emanresu's suggestion, I have no doubt that a baby barrister would make a much better job of it.


The counterclaim read as follows...

1. I make this, my counterclaim, against the Claimant.

2. There are two grounds for making my counterclaim: the Claimant’s repeated trespass on my parking space; and the Claimant’s tortious interference with my lease.

3. The Claimant has been using my parking space for its business purposes since 23 November 2017.

4. To the date of writing, i.e. 17 July 2018, therefore, the Claimant has made use of my parking space for the purposes of its business for a total of 237 days.

5. It follows that the Claimant has trespassed on my parking space for that number of days.

6. In the nearest car park available to the general public, the cost of use of a parking space for the same 237 days would have amounted to £1,087.80.

7. My understanding is that, under Common Law, insofar as trespass is concerned, the Court is required to assume a hypothetical negotiation between a willing and reasonable person in the position of the trespasser, i.e. the Claimant, and a willing and reasonable person in my own position as the occupier of the land.

8. I further understand that the appropriate measure of damages for trespass is the price which such persons would have negotiated as the reasonable price payable for the relevant right of user, or the sum of money which might reasonably have been demanded as a quid pro quo for permitting the trespass.

9. As the Claimant deems £100 to be a reasonable charge for the use of my parking space for one day, the Court could regard £23,700 as a reasonable amount on which to base my counterclaim for the use of the my allocated parking space for 237 days for the Claimant’s business purposes.

10. Frankly, however, I believe £100 for one day’s use of a parking space to be an exorbitant amount, not a reasonable amount.

11. Instead, I regard the very much lower amount of £1,087.80, the cost of use of a parking space for 237 days elsewhere locally, as being much more reasonable figure on which to base my counterclaim.

12. My counterclaim is, therefore, for the sum of £1,087.80.

13. Although that amount is based on a counterclaim for trespass alone and I believe that it would be reasonable for the Court to award me a further amount for tortious interference with my lease, I am willing to accept the sum of £1,087.80 in settlement of the whole of my counterclaim.

14. In addition to agreeing to my counterclaim, I would ask the Court to order the Claimant to cease and desist from its activities in relation to my parking space.

This post has been edited by Eljayjay: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 07:56
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ostell
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 11:12
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You may be interested in this case, which cost UKPC nearly £1400 for repeatedly placing parking charges on a car
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Albert Ross
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 11:16
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QUOTE
My first ticket was cancelled and I was assured that PCM would not operate on my parking space.


Get a copy of the instruction from Paradigm to PCM Ltd

QUOTE
How do I stop them ticketing my car if the housing management company have already told them to bog off from my space


You probably cannot. It would be for their Principal to ensure that they carry out their duties with due diligence.

QUOTE
Could I bring a case against PCM for trespass?


I think that the claim would be against Paradigm, and it would be for Paradigm to invoke the indemnity in their contract with PCM Ltd and add them as a Part 20 defendant.

QUOTE
Just don't want to have to keep contacting the housing association all the time.


If you have a copy of the instruction from Paradigm then you can wait until they obtain details from DVLA and use the instruction as an appeal. and then complain to the ICO that PCM Ltd do not have reasonable grounds to obtain and use your information.


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Churchmouse
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 22:50
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QUOTE (Eljayjay @ Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 08:54) *
7. My understanding is that, under Common Law, insofar as trespass is concerned, the Court is required to assume a hypothetical negotiation between a willing and reasonable person in the position of the trespasser, i.e. the Claimant, and a willing and reasonable person in my own position as the occupier of the land.

I like the counterclaim as a whole, but in 7 I would say something like, "...the Court normally assumes a hypothetical negotiation..."

--Churchmouse
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Peapoduk
post Sun, 22 Jul 2018 - 16:06
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Thank you everyone, I got into contact with the housing association and they spoke to PCM to cancel the ticket.

Will look at putting a counterclaim together and using all the advice from you all.

Thanks Eljayjay for the counterclaim draft.

Best wishes

Peapoduk
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Eljayjay
post Sun, 22 Jul 2018 - 17:55
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Excellent news!

I do, however, suspect that, unless you take action against the parking company and/or its principal, it will only be a matter of time before it happens again.
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ManxRed
post Mon, 23 Jul 2018 - 07:50
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Sorry, haven't got time to read the entire thread, have you placed the PPC and the Management Co. on notice with a withdrawal of implied access to the parking space?


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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 23 Jul 2018 - 12:24
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If there is no claim, there can be no counterclaim
WHat you do is put the management co and its agents on notice not to trespass further, and hold them liable if it ever hapens again.
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bama
post Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 19:08
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Injunction still on the cards (as per the linked UKPC case)

I wonder whois actually putting the tckets on the car ?
Does a PPC bod come around and do it or is it the MA (or a fellow resident ? ) who does it ? (this is often done like this on commission/a bounty).
if its the MA that does it there may torts in the offing

This post has been edited by bama: Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 19:08


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Which facts in any situation or problem are “essential” and what makes them “essential”? If the “essential” facts are said to depend on the principles involved, then the whole business, all too obviously, goes right around in a circle. In the light of one principle or set of principles, one bunch of facts will be the “essential” ones; in the light of another principle or set of principles, a different bunch of facts will be “essential.” In order to settle on the right facts you first have to pick your principles, although the whole point of finding the facts was to indicate which principles apply.

Note that I am not legally qualified and any and all statements made are "Reserved". Liability for application lies with the reader.
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