[NIP Wizard] thewhale Options

[thewhale]

NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: -
Date of the NIP: -
Date you received the NIP: -
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): -
Was the NIP addressed to you? -
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? -
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? -
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons -

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:

• The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.
  
  You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Wed, 13 Nov 2019 12:05:13 +0000

Hello,

A quick one for the collective forum expertise. I got clocked by a HADECS3 camera doing 65 in a 50 on the M1 at the end of September. The location of the camera is down on the letter from South Yorkshire Police as M1-4434A-J30-J31. This camera is on the first gantry after the Woodall services on the northbound carriageway of the M1 between junctions 30 and 31. I was photographed immediately after re-joining the motorway from the services. At the point when I stopped at the services there was no variable speed restriction in effect but by the time I re-joined there was. I’m fully expecting that there is no way of avoiding the COFP of 3 points and £100 that has come through since, but I was wondering if there is any possible saving regulatory breach around:

• The distance between the services slip road and the first gantry is about 400 metres. I was focussed on getting up to normal motorway speed (i.e. 70mph) and re-joining the motorway safely, so basically sailed under the gantry without thinking much. The gantry was the first point at which the new variable speed limit was shown to me. Is there any breach of regulations here?
• On the gantry the two lefthand lanes showed “merge right” symbols, whilst the righthand two lanes showed 50mph limit signs. I was in the lefthand-most lane and so there was no speed limit sign over my lane or the one to my right. Is there any regulation about speed limits needing to be shown above each lane they apply to?

Thanks in advance for any help given.


This post has been edited by thewhale: Wed, 13 Nov 2019 - 12:24

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[Logician]

Try again, this time using the additional questions button

[thewhale]

Sorry not sure what happened there the NIP wizard just seemed to end. I've updated the original post with more of an explanation. Is it possible for me to re-do the NIP wizard wihtout having to delete and recreate this post?

[thewhale]

NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - September 2019
Date of the NIP: - 5 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 7 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): -
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - A quick one for the collective forum expertise. I got clocked by a HADECS3 camera doing 65 in a 50 on the M1 at the end of September. The location of the camera is down on the letter from South Yorkshire Police as M1-4434A-J30-J31. This camera is on the first gantry after the Woodall services on the northbound carriageway of the M1 between junctions 30 and 31. I was photographed immediately after re-joining the motorway from the services. At the point when I stopped at the services there was no variable speed restriction in effect but by the time I re-joined there was. I’m fully expecting that there is no way of avoiding the COFP of 3 points and £100 that has come through since, but I was wondering if there is any possible saving regulatory breach around:

1. The distance between the services slip road and the first gantry is about 400 metres. I was focussed on getting up to normal motorway speed (i.e. 70mph) and re-joining the motorway safely, so basically sailed under the gantry without thinking much. The gantry was the first point at which the new variable speed limit was shown to me. Is there any breach of regulations here?
2. On the gantry the two lefthand lanes showed “merge right” symbols, whilst the righthand two lanes showed 50mph limit signs. I was in the lefthand-most lane and so there was no speed limit sign over my lane or the one to my right. Is there any regulation about speed limits needing to be shown above each lane they apply to?

Thanks in advance for any help given.


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:

• The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.
  
  You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Wed, 13 Nov 2019 12:37:32 +0000

[cp8759]

As long as the camera was placed after the first sign that was there to be seen, it doesn't sound like you have a defence. If it was a hadecs 3 there will be an overview shot showing the relevant gantry.

[666]

[*]The distance between the services slip road and the first gantry is about 400 metres. I was focussed on getting up to normal motorway speed (i.e. 70mph) and re-joining the motorway safely, so basically sailed under the gantry without thinking much. The gantry was the first point at which the new variable speed limit was shown to me. Is there any breach of regulations here?
[*]On the gantry the two lefthand lanes showed “merge right” symbols, whilst the righthand two lanes showed 50mph limit signs. I was in the lefthand-most lane and so there was no speed limit sign over my lane or the one to my right. Is there any regulation about speed limits needing to be shown above each lane they apply to?
[/list]

Thanks in advance for any help given.

It's NO to both questions.

[The Rookie]

As long as the camera was placed after the first sign that was there to be seen, it doesn't sound like you have a defence. If it was a hadecs 3 there will be an overview shot showing the relevant gantry.

HADECS3 are all placed before the speed limit sign as it's where the speed is measured that matters.

[thewhale]

OK cheers, minorly annoying, but more at myself as I should have noticed the 2 big 50 signs. Force of habit of driving at motorway speeds on the motorway. The carriageway was clear at the time so I didn't have the benefit of a reminder from all the other cars driving slowly.

Thanks for your help.

Oh and just for the reocrd the photographic evidence is attached. No idea how they can make out anything from those photos as it's just a load of darkness.



This post has been edited by thewhale: Wed, 13 Nov 2019 - 14:33

[nosferatu1001]

Nothing is attached.
Use an external site to host pictures, and use the "IMG" tagged links to have the pcis load directly here.

[thewhale]

Yep I noticed it didn't work so used a third party service.

[The Rookie]

Well the car nearest the camera is the one that triggered the camera as it’s the one between the two white lines and they clearly read the ref number, not sure what else you want it to show?

[thewhale]

Sorry, was only making that comment as a throw away remark. I don't expect much else and only uploaded the paperwork for completeness so it can be a reference for others in the future.

Cheers again for the time and opinions.

[cp8759]

Well the car nearest the camera is the one that triggered the camera as it’s the one between the two white lines and they clearly read the ref number, not sure what else you want it to show?

I would add the the car in lane 1 can clearly be seen to be gaining on the car in lane 3, which doesn't really help with the "it could have been the other car" argument.

[Logician]

HADECS3 are all placed before the speed limit sign as it's where the speed is measured that matters.

Eh? The measurement cameras are on a platform beside the gantry which carries the speed limit signs, and measures speed after the gantry, the camera that pictures those signs is before the gantry.