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Hillingdon Council PCN - “two wheels on kerb”
Lizardman
post Sat, 14 Sep 2019 - 07:12
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Hi all,

I came home to a letter from Hillingdon council yesterday - in it was a Notice to owner for a PCN for parking “two wheels on the kerb in an area that isn’t a carriage way” - and they want £110!

This is a complete surprise, not only exorbitant figure but the fact that it’s the first I have heard about this PCN (no Ticket was put on the car on date in question) and the NTO doesn’t even mention any discounted rate! Just straight in demanding £110 out of nowhere...!

I Appreciate any help you guys can give on how I can try to fight this

Thanks
Lizardman
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post Sat, 14 Sep 2019 - 07:12
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Mr Mustard
post Sat, 14 Sep 2019 - 07:36
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Please start by posting up copies of the Notice to Owner (cross out your name and address). Use IMGBB.com or IMGUR.com


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cp8759
post Sat, 14 Sep 2019 - 19:46
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Also post the council's photos (you'll find them on the council website) and give us a link to the location on Google Street view.


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hcandersen
post Sun, 15 Sep 2019 - 07:15
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This is a complete surprise, not only exorbitant figure but the fact that it’s the first I have heard about this PCN (no Ticket was put on the car on date in question) and the NTO doesn’t even mention any discounted rate! Just straight in demanding £110 out of nowhere...!

So presumably you were driving at the time in question?

You not finding a ticket does not mean it wasn't served, only that it wasn't there when you returned. The authority's photos would no doubt show service.

You don't get a discount with a NTO.

£110 is the set rate.

So as per others, we need details and evidence.
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Lizardman
post Wed, 18 Sep 2019 - 10:08
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Hi all,

First of all thank you all who have responded for such fast replies and your support. As a Noob on this forum - I didnt realise I had to turn on Email Notifications manually for replies to my thread so sorry this is a few days late. (Perhaps this is feedback to forum heads to have this on by default or at least a note on the Welcome msg...had to dig hard to find the setting!)

Items Requested :-

1. NTO Scan:



2. PCN Photographs:



3. Google Street View Link:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4852218,-...6384!8i8192

Note: The actual spot in question is (oddly) not Street view Mapped - but is Mapped immediately before and after!? The car was parked near the Pink house (seen left in distance) on the opposite side.

QUOTE
So presumably you were driving at the time in question?

You not finding a ticket does not mean it wasn't served, only that it wasn't there when you returned. The authority's photos would no doubt show service.

You don't get a discount with a NTO.

£110 is the set rate.


4. In reply to hcanserson - I am the registered keeper but the car is shared, so I cannot remember who was driving on the day (this is based near a Pub we frequent). Looks like the ticket was indeed placed as shown in the PCN photos page but again no one remembers seeing a yellow n' black on the windscreen on the day. No discount offered - not surprised...


I hope this includes what was requested and let me know if anything else is missing.

I appreciate the support and any advice on the next steps and my response to this PCN.

Thanks,
Lizardman
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stamfordman
post Wed, 18 Sep 2019 - 10:29
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Looks bang to rights and the PCN was served - they often go missing though maybe blown off or someone took it.

Best thing is to make a polite rep saying there was no PCN on car and could they reinstate the discount to settle.
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Lizardman
post Wed, 18 Sep 2019 - 11:01
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Thanks for the advice, ill wait to see what the others say.. I would rather not concede so quickly!
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Incandescent
post Wed, 18 Sep 2019 - 11:06
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The photos show you as bang-to-rights, (the car). Who was driving on-the-day is irrelevant, this is decriminalised parking enforcement, and the owner as on the V5C is the person responsible for submitting formal reps and for registering appeals at adjudication, and also for paying the penalty.

The driver can submit informal reps, but if these are refused, it is back to owner responsibility.

This post has been edited by Incandescent: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 - 11:07
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hcandersen
post Wed, 18 Sep 2019 - 12:34
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@Incandescent... not 'The driver can submit informal reps, but if these are refused, it is back to owner responsibility.', but could have submitted, it's too late now, a NTO has already been served!

OP, what you've been advised is absolutely correct in law and sound advice: the car was in contravention because the default position in the Greater London area is that a car may not be parked other than wholly on the carriageway- it's a statutory prohibition and been with Londoners for over 40 years.

You have a NTO and you must respond within the 28-day period (which ends on 13th October) or risk the penalty being increased by 50% and losing your right to make representations.

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 - 13:33
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Incandescent
post Wed, 18 Sep 2019 - 12:52
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QUOTE
@Incandescent... not 'The driver can submit informal reps, but if these are refused, it is back to owner responsibility.', but could have submitted, it's too late now, a NTO has been served.

Sorry, I was just describing the process, not this particular case, so a bit ambiguous. Yes, NTO served means it is all down to the owner as per the registered keeper on the V5C.
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cp8759
post Wed, 18 Sep 2019 - 16:48
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There are footway parking bays further up the road but they're on the other side of the road. There are signs but they're a bit hit and miss, there's also a chance that there's no section 15 resolution for the road.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 - 12:37


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Lizardman
post Wed, 18 Sep 2019 - 20:36
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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Wed, 18 Sep 2019 - 13:34) *
@Incandescent... not 'The driver can submit informal reps, but if these are refused, it is back to owner responsibility.', but could have submitted, it's too late now, a NTO has already been served!

OP, what you've been advised is absolutely correct in law and sound advice: the car was in contravention because the default position in the Greater London area is that a car may not be parked other than wholly on the carriageway- it's a statutory prohibition and been with Londoners for over 40 years.

You have a NTO and you must respond within the 28-day period (which ends on 13th October) or risk the penalty being increased by 50% and losing your right to make representations.


So I’m hearing that the advice here is “just pay it”

Can i at least appeal for the discount rate due to the lost/stolen notice?
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stamfordman
post Wed, 18 Sep 2019 - 20:38
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See my post #6.

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Lizardman
post Thu, 19 Sep 2019 - 19:11
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Wrote a polite appeal explaining the situation, asking for the discounted rate - fingers crossed they feel some sympathy
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cp8759
post Fri, 20 Sep 2019 - 12:38
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If you're going to challenge this you must ask for the resolution that permits footway parking on the road. Often the resolution doesn't exist and if the council can't come up with it, it will likely lose at adjudication.


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hcandersen
post Fri, 20 Sep 2019 - 13:20
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If you must!

Your objective should be to get the discount re-offered, so frame any challenge accordingly.

You have no basis for thinking that the London-wide ban on footway parking has been disapplied where you were other than in the most vague terms i.e. further up the road and on the opposite side. So don't clutter what should essentially be a plea for discretion with anything which seeks to defend or justify your actions.

And even if you asked and they did not reply, that would not be successful grounds at appeal IMO. Why should they respond to what they and an adj might consider to be nothing more than a fishing expedition.

If you want to find out, do it in parallel using a straightforward telephone call or, if necessary, a FOI request.
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Lizardman
post Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 11:01
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FFS

I only signed up to this forum after Someone on MSE forum kindly recommended to this one to get help as they don’t deal with Council PCNs

Since writing my post I have not had any sort of sympathy to my situation, only been told I’m “bang to rights” and now trolled by someone else with a chip on their shoulder! Are you planning to come at me with pitch forks and torches next?

Who ever that last post was - I would like to see how you feel when you make a silly mistake with your car and someone demands £110 off you when your planning Christmas for your two kids!!

I only hope I never need use of such “advice” ever again as I clearly I wouldn’t be getting any help here!
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stamfordman
post Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 11:23
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If the best outcome is to pay the discount we say so - we won't give false advice that you can get it cancelled apart from the council exercising discretion (which they are very unlikely to do).

Plywood's rant was out of order and one for our flame pit section, although some of us will comment when we see bad things - we are only human.
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 11:39
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 12:23) *
If the best outcome is to pay the discount we say so - we won't give false advice that you can get it cancelled apart from the council exercising discretion (which they are very unlikely to do).

Plywood's rant was out of order and one for our flame pit section, although some of us will comment when we see bad things - we are only human.


+ I to every thing said by stamf. Plywood should look to why he is on the forum, and think there but for the grace of god go I


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cp8759
post Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 14:10
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QUOTE (Lizardman @ Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 12:01) *
I only hope I never need use of such “advice” ever again as I clearly I wouldn’t be getting any help here!

If you case is very weak it would be reprehensible of us to tell you to plough on regardless. The best advice we can give you is to pay the discount, because that is likely to be the best outcome. If there were a way out of this, we would have told you. If you want to risk the full penalty amount by taking on the council we will help, but we have to be honest and tell you that your chances of success are not great. I'm not sure what else you can reasonably expect of us.


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