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cossie77
post Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 10:42
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Hello All,

I need some urgent advice and help. I totted up on my licence, and got caught doing 75 in a 30. I know it's ridiculous, but I was hurrying back to work when the officer stopped me. Anyway, at the time I was on 9 points, and this took me over 12 points. It went to the Magistrates Court, and they gave me a year's driving ban!! So I appealed this to the Crown Court, and they have given me a 6 month ban. My problem is this, I'm out of work since October and also behind with rent payments and bills. I also care for my elderly mother and drive her to have hospital visits. My hardship plea was harshly thrown out the window by the judge for no reason. I need my licence for my job, and this is proving very hard since October. Is there anything I can do in my situation? Even if the court can reduce this to 3 months, I would accept this. I've been offered two jobs, and when they did my licence check, they said they can't take me on anymore! Any help or advice will be greatly appreciated. sad.gif
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post Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 10:42
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Robert65
post Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 10:47
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I can't see them giving you anything more lenient surely? 75 in a 30 area is extremely fast! and if you were on 9 points anyway. I don't understand why you weren't more careful if I'm honest?
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BaggieBoy
post Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 10:47
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It's not clear what happened here. It's far more likely that for the 75 in 30 (really?) you were given an outright ban and not a totting ban.

What does your driving record state on the DVLA, if you see no TT99 code then you got a outright ban I suspect. 6 months ban for a 75 in a 30 is pretty much par for the course.
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Jlc
post Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 10:59
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Totting bans are usually 6 months. However, they can be longer under certain conditions. (e.g. previous disquals)

But the appeal appears to have reduced this 12 months to 6.

Were exceptional hardship pleas made to both courts? (And when?)

This post has been edited by Jlc: Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 10:59


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RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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cossie77
post Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 11:09
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[quote name='Robert65' date='Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 10:47' post='1345063']
I can't see them giving you anything more lenient surely? 75 in a 30 area is extremely fast! and if you were on 9 points anyway. I don't understand why you weren't more careful if I'm honest?

I know!! But the police we're waiting on a slip road as I was speeding by. I know it's stupid, but I need my licence for my job.


[quote name='BaggieBoy' date='Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 10:47' post='1345064']
It's not clear what happened here. It's far more likely that for the 75 in 30 (really?) you were given an outright ban and not a totting ban.

What does your driving record state on the DVLA, if you see no TT99 code then you got a outright ban I suspect. 6 months ban for a 75 in a 30 is pretty much par for the course.

My licence has the TT99 on there. But bizarrely it says you "were disqualified from driving you can renew your licence". Very strange.


[quote name='Jlc' date='Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 10:59' post='1345070']
Totting bans are usually 6 months. However, they can be longer under certain conditions. (e.g. previous disquals)

But the appeal appears to have reduced this 12 months to 6.

Were exceptional hardship pleas made to both courts? (And when?)

Both hardship pleas were made in the Magistrates and Crown court, but totally rejected for some reason even though due to my circumstances.
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cp8759
post Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 11:14
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QUOTE (cossie77 @ Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 10:42) *
My hardship plea was harshly thrown out the window by the judge for no reason.

I suspect your mitigation was taken into account by the judge, and you were nonetheless banned for a reason, namely 75 in a 30. At that excess you were lucky not to get charged with dangerous driving, under the circumstances you should consider yourself lucky. To put it another way, if your job depends on your licence, how fast do you think you should be going before a court will decide that, even if it costs you your job, you should be banned? 90 in 30? 100 in a 30? 120 in a 30? Where would you draw the line?

Unfortunately in the circumstances I don't think there's anything you can do. You had your chance to make mitigation submissions to the court, on two occasions; unless you can show that there has been an error of law (which is unlikely given a Crown Court judge has now dealt with the matter) I do not see any way you could challenge this. Maybe if you'd come on here before your first court date we could have helped, but I fear it is now too late.

QUOTE (cossie77 @ Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 11:09) *
Both hardship pleas were made in the Magistrates and Crown court, but totally rejected for some reason even though due to my circumstances.

I'm pretty sure in the Crown Court reasons would have been given for the revised sentence. As it's a Court of record you could ask for a transcript of the proceedings, but I think that would only help you to understand why you were banned for six months, rather than give you any grounds to challenge the sentence.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
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samthecat
post Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 11:25
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Bear in mind that you have been punished for an offence, it will have an effect (hardship) on you.

Exceptional hardship is over and above what could be reasonably expected, losing your job is unlikely to cut it. Hardship to others will carry more weight but just saying your mother needs occasionally taking to appointments would still fall short. Why couldn't you arrange a taxi for her?

As already stated it would be a good idea to confirm if you received points and therefore 'totted' or if you were disqualified purely for this offence. You may still have points attached to your licence when you get it back.


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If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.
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andy_foster
post Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 11:33
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As others have noted, your account is somewhat ambiguous.

Assuming that you were given points for the latest offence and therefore became a totter (as opposed to receiving an outright ban for the offence), the court were obliged to ban you for not less than 6 months unless you could show that such a ban would cause exceptional hardship. Exceptional hardship is hardship above and beyond what most people would suffer - so losing your job is not in itself sufficient, unless you can show that you would suffer far more than most.

Having appealed to the Crown Court, your only appeal is to the High Court if you can show that the Crown Court were 'wrong in law' - failed to follow the proper procedures/rules, or made a decision so bad that no properly directed court could have made. Nothing that you have told us so far indicates that you have any realistic chance of success.

N.B. Those new to the forums might want to bear in mind the House Rules - particularly that we are not here to pass judgment on the offences posters have committed or have alleged to have committed, or otherwise be sanctimonious.


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Andy

Millenial (noun): a person who is offended at being told "Suck it up, buttercup"
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Logician
post Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 12:03
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QUOTE (cossie77 @ Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 11:09) *
My licence has the TT99 on there. But bizarrely it says you "were disqualified from driving you can renew your licence". Very strange.
QUOTE (Jlc @ Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 10:59) *
Totting bans are usually 6 months. However, they can be longer under certain conditions. (e.g. previous disquals) But the appeal appears to have reduced this 12 months to 6. Were exceptional hardship pleas made to both courts? (And when?)
Both hardship pleas were made in the Magistrates and Crown court, but totally rejected for some reason even though due to my circumstances.


As you have TT99 on your licence, you were disqualified as a totter. "You can renew your licence" means once you have served the disqualification, you can apply to get a licence, it will not come automatically. But you will not have to take a test. When you get a new licence, it will have zero points. You have pleaded exceptional hardship in magistrates and Crown courts, both have rejected it. As Andy says, your only appeal now would be to the High Court if the lower courts were wrong in law, but nothing you have told us suggests they were, so you have reached the end of the road. On no account be tempted to drive anyway, that is a serious offence for which you can be jailed and would certainly be banned again.



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NewJudge
post Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 15:36
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QUOTE (cossie77 @ Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 11:09) *
Both hardship pleas were made in the Magistrates and Crown court, but totally rejected for some reason even though due to my circumstances.

"Exceptional Hardship" is entirely a matter for the court to decide. Many people facing a totting-up ban arrive in the belief that they simply have to say they need to drive for their job and away they go, licence intact. It's not quite that simple and, as mentioned, loss of employment is not, by itself, considered exceptional. (There are some schools of thought that believe drivers who need to drive for work should be especially careful not to commit offences). You've had two cracks at it, the second before a Crown Court judge and two magistrates. The reason your pleas were rejected was because both courts thought that the hardship you would face was not exceptional. I'm afraid you have nowhere to go with this.
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Ocelot
post Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 19:01
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It actually sounds like they treated you relatively leniently by just giving you the totting ban. 43 in a 30 may have resulted in the same penalty. I also can't see any reasonable grounds for appeal.
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