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sending off license, going abroad car hire
anth85
post Sat, 6 Jan 2018 - 21:00
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I had a speeding offence a few months ago, first set of 3 points in 10 years. I went online and paid the fine as per the paperwork and thought that was the end of it. I got a letter through the post this morning (Saturday) saying they had received payment but i still needed to post my license off (newer card style), within 7 days or I will be taken to court. Normally this would be fine, however I go to Florida on Wednesday morning and need my license for the car hire I have booked. I am now panicking that I have the choice of losing the car hire and £400 to book it, or go to court. I can't even ring the department that sent the letter because it's the weekend. Which is why I am posting on here, can anyone advise what will happen?
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post Sat, 6 Jan 2018 - 21:00
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nigelbb
post Sun, 7 Jan 2018 - 07:57
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QUOTE (NewJudge @ Sat, 6 Jan 2018 - 21:49) *
QUOTE (anth85 @ Sat, 6 Jan 2018 - 21:37) *
I am still unclear why they need my photocard license? it's not like a paper license where there points were physically wrote on is it? I'd have thought the driver number would be enough then it be saved on a central database similar to a cars MOT/insurance ect

They need it to confirm your identity and to ensure they are adding the points to the correct driving record.

I don't see why this should be necessary when they don't ask you to produce your licence if you appear in court are found guilty & have points awarded.


--------------------
British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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squaredeal
post Sun, 7 Jan 2018 - 08:54
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QUOTE (nigelbb @ Sun, 7 Jan 2018 - 08:57) *
QUOTE (NewJudge @ Sat, 6 Jan 2018 - 21:49) *
QUOTE (anth85 @ Sat, 6 Jan 2018 - 21:37) *
I am still unclear why they need my photocard license? it's not like a paper license where there points were physically wrote on is it? I'd have thought the driver number would be enough then it be saved on a central database similar to a cars MOT/insurance ect

They need it to confirm your identity and to ensure they are adding the points to the correct driving record.

I don't see why this should be necessary when they don't ask you to produce your licence if you appear in court are found guilty & have points awarded.

HMCTS are lobbying hard to get the law changed to enable remote endorsement, as it will save them millions, however until this happens, it's the law.
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Churchmouse
post Sun, 7 Jan 2018 - 10:12
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QUOTE (squaredeal @ Sun, 7 Jan 2018 - 08:54) *
QUOTE (nigelbb @ Sun, 7 Jan 2018 - 08:57) *
QUOTE (NewJudge @ Sat, 6 Jan 2018 - 21:49) *
QUOTE (anth85 @ Sat, 6 Jan 2018 - 21:37) *
I am still unclear why they need my photocard license? it's not like a paper license where there points were physically wrote on is it? I'd have thought the driver number would be enough then it be saved on a central database similar to a cars MOT/insurance ect

They need it to confirm your identity and to ensure they are adding the points to the correct driving record.

I don't see why this should be necessary when they don't ask you to produce your licence if you appear in court are found guilty & have points awarded.

HMCTS are lobbying hard to get the law changed to enable remote endorsement, as it will save them millions, however until this happens, it's the law.

That sounds much more likely: The law has simply not been updated since the paper points era, and there is currently no logical reason for the requirement.

FWIW, the police (and everyone else) in the US will expect you to have your driving license (note spelling) with you whilst driving (and everywhere else--it is their primary source of picture ID). The idea that you can legally drive around in any modern country without it will astound and amuse the natives to no end.

--Churchmouse
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NewJudge
post Sun, 7 Jan 2018 - 10:25
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QUOTE (nigelbb @ Sun, 7 Jan 2018 - 07:57) *
I don't see why this should be necessary when they don't ask you to produce your licence if you appear in court are found guilty & have points awarded.

A defendant is asked for his licence following conviction in court. If he does not produce it he is told to send it to the DVLA.


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cp8759
post Sun, 7 Jan 2018 - 15:37
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QUOTE (squaredeal @ Sun, 7 Jan 2018 - 08:54) *
QUOTE (nigelbb @ Sun, 7 Jan 2018 - 08:57) *
QUOTE (NewJudge @ Sat, 6 Jan 2018 - 21:49) *
QUOTE (anth85 @ Sat, 6 Jan 2018 - 21:37) *
I am still unclear why they need my photocard license? it's not like a paper license where there points were physically wrote on is it? I'd have thought the driver number would be enough then it be saved on a central database similar to a cars MOT/insurance ect

They need it to confirm your identity and to ensure they are adding the points to the correct driving record.

I don't see why this should be necessary when they don't ask you to produce your licence if you appear in court are found guilty & have points awarded.

HMCTS are lobbying hard to get the law changed to enable remote endorsement, as it will save them millions, however until this happens, it's the law.

That's interesting, could you provide your source? I'm not questioning what you're saying, I'm just curious as to how they plan to avoid fraud.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
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Youngdand
post Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 13:30
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Hi, though not ideal, you could apply for an international driving permit from the post office, for which they require sight of your original license to issue, take both with you to hire the car, and then post back the photo card, whilst keeping the international permit and a copy of your original license.

https://www.postoffice.co.uk/international-driving-permit

Some hire companies require one at any rate.


This post has been edited by Youngdand: Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 13:31
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cp8759
post Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 14:04
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QUOTE (Youngdand @ Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 13:30) *
Hi, though not ideal, you could apply for an international driving permit from the post office, for which they require sight of your original license to issue, take both with you to hire the car, and then post back the photo card, whilst keeping the international permit and a copy of your original license.

https://www.postoffice.co.uk/international-driving-permit

Some hire companies require one at any rate.

The international permit is invalid without the original licence. Whether an American cop would know that (or know of the Geneva convention) is a different matter.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
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anth85
post Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 14:08
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Thanks for all the posts guys, after getting passed from pillar to post this morning. I eventually ended up back and the same place i called originally, they have put a note on the file that I am away and that I have been advised I can post it off on my return, which I will do. I knew there was advise to fight it, but with me screwing up twice, once not informing the dvla of the vehicle change of address and secondly not sending the license off in the first place, I figured I would lose any fight so take the penalty and don't do it again.
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Jlc
post Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 14:23
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There won't be a fight it you're outside the statutory limit.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 14:23


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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cp8759
post Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 15:19
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QUOTE (Youngdand @ Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 15:14) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 14:04) *
QUOTE (Youngdand @ Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 13:30) *
Hi, though not ideal, you could apply for an international driving permit from the post office, for which they require sight of your original license to issue, take both with you to hire the car, and then post back the photo card, whilst keeping the international permit and a copy of your original license.

https://www.postoffice.co.uk/international-driving-permit

Some hire companies require one at any rate.

The international permit is invalid without the original licence. Whether an American cop would know that (or know of the Geneva convention) is a different matter.


Though its academic now, he could have claimed to have lost it, as he clearly had it in order to hire the vehicle and would be able to show this, and having a copy could just be bundled with all other holiday paperwork. the likelyhood of requiring it after the car hire is probably slim anyhow.

Dan.

The problem would always be that if your stopped by the police, there are countries / states where failing to produce a licence on demand is an offence in itself.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
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Fredd
post Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 15:39
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 15:19) *
The problem would always be that if your stopped by the police, there are countries / states where failing to produce a licence on demand is an offence in itself.


Also we don't do this kind of thing here:
QUOTE (Youngdand @ Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 15:14) *
Though its academic now, he could have claimed to have lost it,


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southpaw82
post Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 18:32
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 15:19) *
The problem would always be that if your stopped by the police, there are countries / states where failing to produce a licence on demand is an offence in itself.

Such as the UK?


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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cp8759
post Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 18:45
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 18:32) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 15:19) *
The problem would always be that if your stopped by the police, there are countries / states where failing to produce a licence on demand is an offence in itself.

Such as the UK?

I was referring to countries that don't have a 7 day period when you can produce your licence at a police station penalty free


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
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