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Stopped by the police claiming 110 mph while I was not even at the speed limit [Video]
go2ready
post Sat, 6 Jan 2018 - 16:18
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Hello there, I need help & advice on this one and anything else will also be appreciated.

tl;dr I was pulled over by a met police officer at 30/12/2017 for doing 110 mph on A20 while I was doing 68, I have video evidence.

Here is the frontal dash footage with the speedo reading from my HUD (not very clear tho), I intentionally included 10 mins more driving in the video, before I meet the police officer to show you that I was not speeding at all. Please read the description or comment on the video to skip to the relevant part, but here
is a copy of that,

"Police officers sitting at the side of the road in the bushes, video location 10:35, google map location https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.3939669,0...3312!8i6656
stopped me at 14:50 allegate me doing 110 MPH! 16:20 He later told me that “It is easy to not notice your speed in such powerful car.”"

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKySmZeT9NA

Here are some bulletin point that I would like to highlight,

1, I was following the traffic (even fallen behind it) before I meet the police car hiding behind bushes.
2, I was overtaken by another car when I pass them.
3, I handed it my license when pulled over, I did not take any penalty point or fine on the spot, the police office provides verbal NIP to me but states that letter should arrive within 14 days.
4, I signed the reporting ticket to show my acknowledgement but not admittance, he did not give any back to me.
5, I think his device might be set to kmph as 110 kmph was matching the speeding I was doing 68mph as you can see from the video.
6, I have one passenger(my wife) with me on the car, she knows what it feels like to driving 110mph as we have been to the autobahn.

Not here is what I think I might do:

I will wait for any letter to arrive, and appeal anything to me, go to court with my wife and my video, ask for any calibration record of the device and show my video.

However here are my doubt and questions,

1, Was the evidence suffice? I was not speeding either intentionally or unintentionally.
2, I need to change my address 2 times in the coming 6 months, is noticing DVLA enough? I am worrying missing any letter sent to me.
3, Is there anything I can do to ask for justice? Without my dashcam I could left stranged and hand in thousands of pounds in fine and 6 points for something I never committed.

This post has been edited by go2ready: Sat, 6 Jan 2018 - 16:21
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post Sat, 6 Jan 2018 - 16:18
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cp8759
post Sun, 7 Jan 2018 - 20:14
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QUOTE (go2ready @ Sun, 7 Jan 2018 - 19:38) *
Sorry I don't, it is my first time there as I just follow the Sat Nav and did not know too much about the surrounding area, but does it matter whether it is Met or Kent police?

No it makes no difference because you've confirmed it was the MET. It might have been a problem if the officer had been from Kent and you'd made a complaint to the MET, as the MET would know nothing about it. In any event, as has been pointed out, it's far too soon to make a complaint.

If you want to get in touch with them, you can call them on 020 7230 1212 and ask to be put through to the traffic prosecution team. Or just wait for the letter.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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NewJudge
post Sun, 7 Jan 2018 - 22:19
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I don’t buy the possible Kmh/Mph confusion.

No mention of Kmh is made in UK speed limits and legislation. Road distances in the UK are not measured in Kilometres as opposed to miles. (In fact I believe it is illegal for distance information over to be displayed in Kilometres) There is no reason for UK police officers to make any conversion from MPH to KMH or vice versa. Even the most inexperienced of police officers should be able to observe the difference between 110mph and 110 KMH.

This really is most puzzling.
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superSmiffy
post Sun, 7 Jan 2018 - 22:52
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QUOTE (NewJudge @ Sun, 7 Jan 2018 - 22:19) *
I don’t buy the possible Kmh/Mph confusion.

No mention of Kmh is made in UK speed limits and legislation. Road distances in the UK are not measured in Kilometres as opposed to miles. (In fact I believe it is illegal for distance information over to be displayed in Kilometres) There is no reason for UK police officers to make any conversion from MPH to KMH or vice versa. Even the most inexperienced of police officers should be able to observe the difference between 110mph and 110 KMH.

This really is most puzzling.

If it was an approved device it will have no capability of being set to kph.
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Irksome
post Sun, 7 Jan 2018 - 23:14
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I think the OP should have his day in court for that then means the ramifications of the subsequent investigation will be more serious, which I think is necessary to prevent this sort of behaviour from occurring in the future.
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mickR
post Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 10:01
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There are an awful lot of cars on the road which are far more distinctive and powerful than the OPs car.
This sounds very fishy. I also detected a hint of "attitude" in the cops voice.
I think he was deliberately targeted and it wasn't for speeding but that was an easy ticket, would have been a non story if cop had noticed the dash cam imo.
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cp8759
post Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 11:20
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QUOTE (superSmiffy @ Sun, 7 Jan 2018 - 22:52) *
QUOTE (NewJudge @ Sun, 7 Jan 2018 - 22:19) *
I don’t buy the possible Kmh/Mph confusion.

No mention of Kmh is made in UK speed limits and legislation. Road distances in the UK are not measured in Kilometres as opposed to miles. (In fact I believe it is illegal for distance information over to be displayed in Kilometres) There is no reason for UK police officers to make any conversion from MPH to KMH or vice versa. Even the most inexperienced of police officers should be able to observe the difference between 110mph and 110 KMH.

This really is most puzzling.

If it was an approved device it will have no capability of being set to kph.

I suspect the device actually detects the speed in metric, and this is then converted to mph by the device's software. The device should be set up to only allow the speed in mph to be displayed (there is no reason to give the user the option to switch between metric and imperial), but maybe the device malfunctioned?


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No, I am not a lawyer.
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mazzer
post Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 11:40
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Totally agree with previous comments. This is a very unsatisfactory situation and I hope the OP does follow it up properly and doesn't just let them quietly drop it when they realise there's credible evidence against them.

I also drive that route very regularly and have often seen Police parked at that quarry exit. Usually, they are parked far enough back from the road that it would be difficult for them to clearly see traffic approaching, so I've assumed they're observing (and targetting for speed measurement) vehicles going away from them once they pass.

That's still plenty of time in daylight to 'form an opinion' (if they actually do that any more!) and get a ping further along the road but in the dark it's going to make their job much more difficult and it still doesn't go any way to explain what's happened here.

I wouldn't say a 235 is particularly distinctive or powerful either, so that's even more strange.

Next time I see Police parked there I'm going to check if they're Kent or Met as well. I rarely see Kent cars along that stretch of the A20, but there's always Met cars around there.

Often, you'll see Police parked on the on/off ramp of the Queen Mary's Hospital exit. It's a favorite location for them to catch speeders as the limit changes to 50 a bit further back but you'll see drivers still doing 70+ before they spot the first speed camera near the cemetery and slow down.

OP, did you by any chance spot the make and model of Police vehicle which stopped you? Did it catch it on video when they had finished with you? The timestamp on the original video was 22:00, is that correct?

This post has been edited by mazzer: Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 11:40
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Colin_S
post Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 12:30
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Assuming it is the car in the slip road that did the speed check and subsequent stop things are even stranger as there are one or two cars going faster in lane 3 at around the point the speed would presumably have been registered.

I'm going for the conspiracy theory that the car was targeted for another reason. Perhaps the police were looking for likely drug runners or similar or had some intel that such a car was involved in a crime of some sort. Doesn't really explain the accusation though.
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go2ready
post Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 12:41
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QUOTE (mazzer @ Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 11:40) *
Totally agree with previous comments. This is a very unsatisfactory situation and I hope the OP does follow it up properly and doesn't just let them quietly drop it when they realise there's credible evidence against them.

I also drive that route very regularly and have often seen Police parked at that quarry exit. Usually, they are parked far enough back from the road that it would be difficult for them to clearly see traffic approaching, so I've assumed they're observing (and targetting for speed measurement) vehicles going away from them once they pass.

That's still plenty of time in daylight to 'form an opinion' (if they actually do that any more!) and get a ping further along the road but in the dark it's going to make their job much more difficult and it still doesn't go any way to explain what's happened here.

I wouldn't say a 235 is particularly distinctive or powerful either, so that's even more strange.

Next time I see Police parked there I'm going to check if they're Kent or Met as well. I rarely see Kent cars along that stretch of the A20, but there's always Met cars around there.

Often, you'll see Police parked on the on/off ramp of the Queen Mary's Hospital exit. It's a favorite location for them to catch speeders as the limit changes to 50 a bit further back but you'll see drivers still doing 70+ before they spot the first speed camera near the cemetery and slow down.

OP, did you by any chance spot the make and model of Police vehicle which stopped you? Did it catch it on video when they had finished with you? The timestamp on the original video was 22:00, is that correct?


Thank you, I was in total shocked when I stopped by the police and everything they said are really strange and bizarre to me as well.

The time is not correct, is it around 5-6 pm, police car is a marked X5, police car was not shown on my dashcam but I do have a rear view dash cam, sadly it was set to park mode and did not record my driving at that time
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MFM
post Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 12:47
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I don't see why everyone seems so confused about the actions of the police. They were clearly not mistaken and deliberately went out of their way to try and stitch up the OP. Why isn't the first question what can be done to make sure this corrupt individual/s loses his job or even better, get prosecuted for his unscrupulous behaviour?
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go2ready
post Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 12:47
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QUOTE (mickR @ Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 10:01) *
There are an awful lot of cars on the road which are far more distinctive and powerful than the OPs car.
This sounds very fishy. I also detected a hint of "attitude" in the cops voice.
I think he was deliberately targeted and it wasn't for speeding but that was an easy ticket, would have been a non story if cop had noticed the dash cam imo.


They noticed my rear view dash cam and encourage me to check my speed. Seems like they are confident of their device
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NewJudge
post Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 13:07
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 11:20) *
I suspect the device actually detects the speed in metric, and this is then converted to mph by the device's software. The device should be set up to only allow the speed in mph to be displayed (there is no reason to give the user the option to switch between metric and imperial), but maybe the device malfunctioned?

That may well be true. But I've had a decent look at the footage and they followed him for almost three minutes – probably over three miles. During that time he was overtaken by at least three or four vehicles and one car – a blue hatchback - joined the carriageway from the B2173 slip road just before the BP station on the offside. That car was actually travelling faster than the OP (whilst on the slip road, which actually includes a sharp bend just before it joins the main carriageway) and he pulled in behind it!

There is no way that any observer – even the most inexperienced – could conceive that the OP was travelling at anything like 110mph anywhere along that stretch. In fact, even without any speedometer readings, it is hard to fathom that he even exceeded 70mph. Assuming the dashcam footage is undoctored, if these officers have indeed preferred a charge that accuses him of driving at 110mph I think their motives need investigation.
QUOTE (go2ready @ Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 12:47) *
They noticed my rear view dash cam and encourage me to check my speed. Seems like they are confident of their device

I have more confidence in your footage than I have in their device.

This post has been edited by NewJudge: Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 13:08
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mazzer
post Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 13:09
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From the conversation when they stopped you, it sounds like they showed you the device they supposedly measured your speed with displaying the number 110? Did they also say they had you on video as well? Did they show you anything else to support their claim you were doing that speed?

BTW, I've watched the video a few times again and it's possible to get a fairly accurate estimate of your speed using the 100m marker posts by the side of the road. Using the 4 posts prior to where the Police were parked, I come up with an average speed of 64mph, which is close enough to your HUD display to prove you were nowhere near the speed they claim.

The only vehicles which were going significantly faster at the time were the white Volvo and the van which passed you, but I wouldn't say they were doing more then 80-85 as they passed you.

I must admit this has made me re-think fitting a camera to my own car. If the Police are seriously going to try and make this one stick it's very concerning. If they used a LIDAR/camera it will be very interesting to see what they captured.
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go2ready
post Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 13:18
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QUOTE (mazzer @ Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 13:09) *
From the conversation when they stopped you, it sounds like they showed you the device they supposedly measured your speed with displaying the number 110? Did they also say they had you on video as well? Did they show you anything else to support their claim you were doing that speed?

BTW, I've watched the video a few times again and it's possible to get a fairly accurate estimate of your speed using the 100m marker posts by the side of the road. Using the 4 posts prior to where the Police were parked, I come up with an average speed of 64mph, which is close enough to your HUD display to prove you were nowhere near the speed they claim.

The only vehicles which were going significantly faster at the time were the white Volvo and the van which passed you, but I wouldn't say they were doing more then 80-85 as they passed you.

I must admit this has made me re-think fitting a camera to my own car. If the Police are seriously going to try and make this one stick it's very concerning. If they used a LIDAR/camera it will be very interesting to see what they captured.


Yes they sound me a radar gun showing 109 or 110 something. No, they did not say they have me on video when I ask for evidence, both of them just sort of came with an answer similar to "We both saw you as your car is distinctive and powerful."

Thank you for do the analysis in the video, definitely appreciated.
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DancingDad
post Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 13:19
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Don't usually post in this forum but with that video, I cannot see how any prosecution could succeed.
Keep it safe, not only a copy (copies) but the original memory card so any allegations of tampering can be countered.
Without it, it is your word against police and that doesn't go well in court.

My concern is as others have mentioned, that notices may not get to you if you are/have moved and DVLA is not up to date at the time when the police request it. You must get on top of that with mail redirection or similar... and update car details, address the moment you move, can be done online I think.
Else risk conviction in your absence and at that speed (alleged) potential ban.

Contact the traffic unit as advised and talk to them, calmly, on basis that a mistake has been made that you would like to resolve now and can they look at your video.
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go2ready
post Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 13:24
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 13:19) *
Don't usually post in this forum but with that video, I cannot see how any prosecution could succeed.
Keep it safe, not only a copy (copies) but the original memory card so any allegations of tampering can be countered.
Without it, it is your word against police and that doesn't go well in court.

My concern is as others have mentioned, that notices may not get to you if you are/have moved and DVLA is not up to date at the time when the police request it. You must get on top of that with mail redirection or similar... and update car details, address the moment you move, can be done online I think.
Else risk conviction in your absence and at that speed (alleged) potential ban.

Contact the traffic unit as advised and talk to them, calmly, on basis that a mistake has been made that you would like to resolve now and can they look at your video.


Thank you very much, appreciated
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mazzer
post Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 13:25
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QUOTE (go2ready @ Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 13:18) *
QUOTE (mazzer @ Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 13:09) *
From the conversation when they stopped you, it sounds like they showed you the device they supposedly measured your speed with displaying the number 110? Did they also say they had you on video as well? Did they show you anything else to support their claim you were doing that speed?

BTW, I've watched the video a few times again and it's possible to get a fairly accurate estimate of your speed using the 100m marker posts by the side of the road. Using the 4 posts prior to where the Police were parked, I come up with an average speed of 64mph, which is close enough to your HUD display to prove you were nowhere near the speed they claim.

The only vehicles which were going significantly faster at the time were the white Volvo and the van which passed you, but I wouldn't say they were doing more then 80-85 as they passed you.

I must admit this has made me re-think fitting a camera to my own car. If the Police are seriously going to try and make this one stick it's very concerning. If they used a LIDAR/camera it will be very interesting to see what they captured.


Yes they sound me a radar gun showing 109 or 110 something. No, they did not say they have me on video when I ask for evidence, both of them just sort of came with an answer similar to "We both saw you as your car is distinctive and powerful."

Thank you for do the analysis in the video, definitely appreciated.


Listen to your video again. He clearly says "We've got you on camera doing it". He then says "we don't make it up" rolleyes.gif

He then goes on to say "you come past us, I targetting your vehicle..."

So confirming they were pinging you as you were going away from them, so it is conceivable the Volvo or Van might have been the actual target but if they "have you on camera" that would be easily disproved, of course.

This post has been edited by mazzer: Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 13:32
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Colin_S
post Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 13:30
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We're they dressed in usual traffic cop attire as IME the X5's are almost exclusively firearms or diplomatic protection unit?
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go2ready
post Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 13:43
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QUOTE (mazzer @ Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 13:25) *
QUOTE (go2ready @ Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 13:18) *
QUOTE (mazzer @ Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 13:09) *
From the conversation when they stopped you, it sounds like they showed you the device they supposedly measured your speed with displaying the number 110? Did they also say they had you on video as well? Did they show you anything else to support their claim you were doing that speed?

BTW, I've watched the video a few times again and it's possible to get a fairly accurate estimate of your speed using the 100m marker posts by the side of the road. Using the 4 posts prior to where the Police were parked, I come up with an average speed of 64mph, which is close enough to your HUD display to prove you were nowhere near the speed they claim.

The only vehicles which were going significantly faster at the time were the white Volvo and the van which passed you, but I wouldn't say they were doing more then 80-85 as they passed you.

I must admit this has made me re-think fitting a camera to my own car. If the Police are seriously going to try and make this one stick it's very concerning. If they used a LIDAR/camera it will be very interesting to see what they captured.


Yes they sound me a radar gun showing 109 or 110 something. No, they did not say they have me on video when I ask for evidence, both of them just sort of came with an answer similar to "We both saw you as your car is distinctive and powerful."

Thank you for do the analysis in the video, definitely appreciated.


Listen to your video again. He clearly says "We've got you on camera doing it". He then says "we don't make it up" rolleyes.gif

He then goes on to say "you come past us, I targetting your vehicle..."

So confirming they were pinging you as you were going away from them, so it is conceivable the Volvo or Van might have been the actual target but if they "have you on camera" that would be easily disproved, of course.


Thank you, I dont particular understand their camera system. Is it a infra-red camera? Normal camera surely can't capture a car travelling 110mph at night while the car is still visible. Am I allowed to view the footage? When I asked for evidence, they said they can't show me but if the matter goes to the court, "there will be one".


QUOTE (Colin_S @ Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 13:30) *
We're they dressed in usual traffic cop attire as IME the X5's are almost exclusively firearms or diplomatic protection unit?


I don't recognise "normal traffic cop" but their uniform seems pretty standard to me. No gun or bulletproof vest anything like that.
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DancingDad
post Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 13:50
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QUOTE (go2ready @ Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 13:43) *
.........Thank you, I dont particular understand their camera system. Is it a infra-red camera? Normal camera surely can't capture a car travelling 110mph at night while the car is still visible. Am I allowed to view the footage? When I asked for evidence, they said they can't show me but if the matter goes to the court, "there will be one".


Your dashcam clearly shows cars at speed in the dark, a police dash cam will show similar.
Whether or not it would show your speed, doubt it.
Most it likely would show is your car going past but unless going significantly faster then others, will not help them.
They seem to be relying on a laser gun which they point and get a read out from.
It then comes down the officer saying they believed you were speeding and the read out confirmed.
I don't think those guns have a video but others will say if I am wrong.

Re their evidence, you have no right to see it unless you are charged and plead not guilty.
No point even asking IMO, all you want to persuade them to do is look at your video.
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