PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice Support health workers

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

High Court Quashed conviction for FTF
bill w
post Thu, 30 Nov 2017 - 21:35
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 294
Joined: 8 Oct 2007
Member No.: 14,341



High Court quashes conviction for FTF

Sorry for another Daily Mail article;

Quote from the article;
"Lord Howard's solicitor-advocate, David Sonn, said that 'crucially' there were no instructions on the form as to how it was to be completed if the recipient did not know who was the driver at the relevant time."


I wonder if they've re-designed the form yet. wink.gif
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 10)
Advertisement
post Thu, 30 Nov 2017 - 21:35
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
Jlc
post Thu, 30 Nov 2017 - 22:29
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 41,506
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: Planet Earth
Member No.: 49,223



Hmmm, but the requirement is to name the driver...

Of course, there's a statutory defence so should it have an option to tick the box 'I did not know who was driving and after reasonable diligence I could not identify them so please send me a court summons to see if the court believes me'?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Fri, 1 Dec 2017 - 06:40
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56,198
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



It seems a very narrow technicality.

I'm enjoying the obvious contradiction of someone claiming not knowing how to complete a form and then hiring what was almost certainly very expensive legal representation for the appeal.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
superSmiffy
post Fri, 1 Dec 2017 - 08:21
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 109
Joined: 18 Sep 2017
Member No.: 94,099



I’m somewhat surprised that the headlines are not something like:

“Former Home Secretary shows he is a complete imbecile; he can’t even fill in a simple form.”
Micheal Howard, former minister responsible for police and the security of the United Kingdom and it’s citizens has such a poor grasp of logic and comprehension, he can’t even answer the questions on a form that millions of other motorists before him managed with no issue whatsoever. “Thank fu’k ISIS wasn’t around on his watch.” A concerned sap commented.


Well done to his barrister who could come up with that for several £thousands. smile.gif

This post has been edited by superSmiffy: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 - 08:24
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Fri, 1 Dec 2017 - 08:49
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 41,506
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: Planet Earth
Member No.: 49,223



...and he has a law degree and was a QC.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Fri, 1 Dec 2017 - 09:50
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56,198
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



QUOTE (superSmiffy @ Fri, 1 Dec 2017 - 09:21) *
I’m somewhat surprised that the headlines are not something like:

“Former Home Secretary shows he is a complete imbecile; he can’t even fill in a simple form.”
Micheal Howard, former minister responsible for police and the security of the United Kingdom and it’s citizens has such a poor grasp of logic and comprehension, he can’t even answer the questions on a form that millions of other motorists before him managed with no issue whatsoever. “Thank fu’k ISIS wasn’t around on his watch.” A concerned sap commented.

All ignoring that for most people they are naming the one driver and there was no indication MH couldn't do that.

On the other hand we get dozens of cases a year of people making a hash of replying when they aren't sure who was driving and are confused by the form and/or what their obligations are.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
bama
post Fri, 1 Dec 2017 - 16:14
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 28,931
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Member No.: 4,323



I think David Sonn had a good point.
It is about time that 'trapdoor drafting' of NIP forms was put under the spotlight.
IMO the legal capabilities, or lack of them, of the recipient is irrelevant to the matter of the form being defective.

be interesting to see the Judgment once it gets lobbed onto t'internet


--------------------
Which facts in any situation or problem are “essential” and what makes them “essential”? If the “essential” facts are said to depend on the principles involved, then the whole business, all too obviously, goes right around in a circle. In the light of one principle or set of principles, one bunch of facts will be the “essential” ones; in the light of another principle or set of principles, a different bunch of facts will be “essential.” In order to settle on the right facts you first have to pick your principles, although the whole point of finding the facts was to indicate which principles apply.

Note that I am not legally qualified and any and all statements made are "Reserved". Liability for application lies with the reader.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
roythebus
post Fri, 1 Dec 2017 - 21:55
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 6,963
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
From: Near Calais
Member No.: 9,683



It is a question that has been asked on here many times, and a point made many times, I don't know who the driver was and there's nowhere on the form for me to say that. Where do I put that on the form?

Most government forms are badly drafted as re a lot of laws and it often takes someone with a lot of money to play the daft laddie to make the point in the High Court.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Churchmouse
post Fri, 1 Dec 2017 - 23:00
Post #9


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 2,356
Joined: 30 Jun 2008
From: Landan
Member No.: 20,731



Howard wasn't Home Secretary when the current s.172 was implemented, but he was in Cabinet. No excuse, really.

--Chuchmouse
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
busman
post Sat, 2 Dec 2017 - 02:30
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 701
Joined: 11 Oct 2006
From: stapleford,nottingham
Member No.: 8,176



Bet he remembers what he had for tea yesterday......Bet he remembers where he parked his car.......Bet he remembers to collect his £300 House of Lords spending money......Bet he remembers his wifes name
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ManxRed
post Mon, 4 Dec 2017 - 16:05
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 9,985
Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Member No.: 21,992



QUOTE (busman @ Sat, 2 Dec 2017 - 02:30) *
Bet he remembers what he had for tea yesterday......Bet he remembers where he parked his car.......Bet he remembers to collect his £300 House of Lords spending money......Bet he remembers his wifes name


But not whether he THREATENED to overrule the prisons chief.


--------------------
Sometimes I use big words I don't understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Thursday, 28th March 2024 - 18:17
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.
IPS Driver Error

IPS Driver Error

There appears to be an error with the database.
You can try to refresh the page by clicking here