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DVLA sayas 'No!', Odd!
whjohnson
post Mon, 18 Sep 2017 - 15:57
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I reported a vehicle to my LA a month or so ago for littering.
Basically, I was following the vehicle and witnessed one of it's occupants discard a plastic bottle out of the rear window.
I noted the time, date, make of car & location. I even retrieved the bottle for use as possible evidence. The act of littering carries a £100 fine around here.

I heard nothing until today, when I received an email form my LA parks, & litter person, who stated that the DVLA would not release the keeper's contact details to the Council - Reason not given, but the Council are resubmitting the info I provided to see if the DVLA will play ball.

Odd isn't it, that the DVLA can't wait to chuck keeper's details to PPCs for fictional 'infringements', yet when a LA has a legitimate reason, they won#t play ball.

This post has been edited by whjohnson: Mon, 18 Sep 2017 - 15:59
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post Mon, 18 Sep 2017 - 15:57
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fedup2
post Mon, 18 Sep 2017 - 17:50
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If i Reported every illegal activity i saw id be forever either writing or in the Police station.Dont we all infringe at sometime or other? Speeding?

Even if they get the details of the registered keeper,that doesnt mean they were actually in the car,and its very unlikely they were in the back and im not sure the reg keeper has to grass the occupant up.

Chuck the bottle in the bin and get on with life,maybe time to look at hobbies?
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The Rookie
post Tue, 19 Sep 2017 - 07:35
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Indeed, they can't take action on the registered keeper, they can't force the RK to name the driver let alone a passenger, I fail to see this getting anywhere.

That said I did once remonstrate with a passenger that had thrown a can out the window, they complained to the Police that I'd told her off and in the process admitted why I was having a go, the passenger got a Police caution for littering!


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Neil B
post Tue, 19 Sep 2017 - 10:53
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I'm sure we've seen a case here of a CCTV penalty for littering from a vehicle - cigarette butt.

Without looking anything up, yes they have the authority but that's just it, they have, not you.

DVLA appear correct as enquiry based on third party, unauthorised evidence.

If they agreed we'd have an infinite number of parking, for example, vigilantes sending their holiday
snaps in to EAs.

So, basic agreement with FU2 but without a sarcastic 'hobby' comment and with some respect for your
effort, albeit misplaced, to combat such anti-social behaviour.


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Umtwebby
post Tue, 19 Sep 2017 - 10:59
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QUOTE (whjohnson @ Mon, 18 Sep 2017 - 16:57) *
I reported a vehicle to my LA a month or so ago for littering.
Basically, I was following the vehicle and witnessed one of it's occupants discard a plastic bottle out of the rear window.
I noted the time, date, make of car & location. I even retrieved the bottle for use as possible evidence. The act of littering carries a £100 fine around here.

I heard nothing until today, when I received an email form my LA parks, & litter person, who stated that the DVLA would not release the keeper's contact details to the Council - Reason not given, but the Council are resubmitting the info I provided to see if the DVLA will play ball.

Odd isn't it, that the DVLA can't wait to chuck keeper's details to PPCs for fictional 'infringements', yet when a LA has a legitimate reason, they won#t play ball.


I actually think you are right to take up the fight and I agree that it is a joke that PPC's seem to get whatever they want.

As for those who think you should get a hobby rather than look after your local community, perhaps they should grow a pair. Although, you might find it a hassle, I welcome your public spirit.
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The Rookie
post Tue, 19 Sep 2017 - 11:34
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QUOTE (Umtwebby @ Tue, 19 Sep 2017 - 11:59) *
I actually think you are right to take up the fight and I agree that it is a joke that PPC's seem to get whatever they want.

As for those who think you should get a hobby rather than look after your local community, perhaps they should grow a pair. Although, you might find it a hassle, I welcome your public spirit.

The issue is that there is no route to any legal action unless the registered keeper and driver cooperate, probably unlikely I'd say.

The fact its likely to be the council who made a hash of the request has nothing to do with data going to PPC's or not surely?


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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fedup2
post Tue, 19 Sep 2017 - 11:46
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Try a Dashcam,they can be alot more exciting and self for-filling...Apparently. That is until your turn comes..........

It is good though that this bottle never found its way into a turtle.
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southpaw82
post Tue, 19 Sep 2017 - 12:40
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Tue, 19 Sep 2017 - 11:53) *
I'm sure we've seen a case here of a CCTV penalty for littering from a vehicle - cigarette butt.

Without looking anything up, yes they have the authority but that's just it, they have, not you.

DVLA appear correct as enquiry based on third party, unauthorised evidence.

If they agreed we'd have an infinite number of parking, for example, vigilantes sending their holiday
snaps in to EAs.

So, basic agreement with FU2 but without a sarcastic 'hobby' comment and with some respect for your
effort, albeit misplaced, to combat such anti-social behaviour.

Unauthorised evidence? There's no bar on the LA requesting details on the basis of evidence gathered by anyone. It's different for the DPE regime because, IIRC, that requires the evidence to be from a CEO or approved device under the regulations.


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StuartBu
post Tue, 19 Sep 2017 - 15:03
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QUOTE (fedup2 @ Tue, 19 Sep 2017 - 12:46) *
Try a Dashcam,they can be alot more exciting and self for-filling...Apparently. That is until your turn comes..........

It is good though that this bottle never found its way into a turtle.


Just as well there aren't many Turtles on our roads then .
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fedup2
post Tue, 19 Sep 2017 - 15:18
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QUOTE (StuartBu @ Tue, 19 Sep 2017 - 16:03) *
QUOTE (fedup2 @ Tue, 19 Sep 2017 - 12:46) *
Try a Dashcam,they can be alot more exciting and self for-filling...Apparently. That is until your turn comes..........

It is good though that this bottle never found its way into a turtle.


Just as well there aren't many Turtles on our roads then .


No and there isnt any in my house either yet i have to pay 5p for bags that if free, apparently would end up eaten by by them.I know cos i saw it on the BBC.....

This post has been edited by fedup2: Tue, 19 Sep 2017 - 15:19
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Spandex
post Tue, 19 Sep 2017 - 19:58
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QUOTE (whjohnson @ Mon, 18 Sep 2017 - 16:57) *
Basically, I was following the vehicle and witnessed one of it's occupants discard a plastic bottle out of the rear window.

I suspect you did something to cause them to throw the bottle out the window...
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Neil B
post Tue, 19 Sep 2017 - 22:30
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 19 Sep 2017 - 08:35) *
Indeed, they can't take action on the registered keeper,

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 19 Sep 2017 - 12:34) *
The issue is that there is no route to any legal action

We don'y know if he's in London.

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 19 Sep 2017 - 12:34) *
unless the registered keeper and driver cooperate, probably unlikely I'd say.

Doesn't come into it, anywhere.


Just seen SP's
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Tue, 19 Sep 2017 - 13:40) *
It's different for the DPE regime because, IIRC, that requires the evidence to be from a CEO or approved device under the regulations.

Is what I was referring to but we don't know if London: Hence I wondered if EA were being daft.


QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Tue, 19 Sep 2017 - 13:40) *
Unauthorised evidence? There's no bar on the LA requesting details on the basis of evidence gathered by anyone.

Do you mean evidence of any crime generally? That's scary.
Or specifically littering?

Edit.
If the latter then I note s154 of Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Act 2014 but don't think there are Regs yet?



This post has been edited by Neil B: Tue, 19 Sep 2017 - 22:42


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
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whjohnson
post Tue, 19 Sep 2017 - 22:42
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Received a reply from the council as to why the DVLA refused to supply details -

QUOTE
They reported back that there wasn’t enough information. The information you provided is exactly the same as the evidence I normally submit.

I have responded with more information about the legislation we are acting under and the location.

Many thanks


Make of that what you will, but I live in a tourist village, and am sick to death of knuckle-dragging tramp-stamped numpties chucking their crap around when there are plenty of bins in the car parks.

We get the lot, dirty nappies, dog poo, chip papers etc etc.
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southpaw82
post Tue, 19 Sep 2017 - 23:11
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Tue, 19 Sep 2017 - 23:30) *
Do you mean evidence of any crime generally? That's scary.

Yes. Requesting keeper data is just an investigative tool in any criminal investigation.


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Neil B
post Wed, 20 Sep 2017 - 13:53
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Wed, 20 Sep 2017 - 00:11) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Tue, 19 Sep 2017 - 23:30) *
Do you mean evidence of any crime generally? That's scary.

Yes. Requesting keeper data is just an investigative tool in any criminal investigation.

Makes sense. I forget Councils have powers over a lot of things; I have to forget cos I shudder at the thought.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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The Rookie
post Wed, 20 Sep 2017 - 17:21
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Tue, 19 Sep 2017 - 23:30) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 19 Sep 2017 - 12:34) *
unless the registered keeper and driver cooperate, probably unlikely I'd say.

Doesn't come into it, anywhere.

Of course it does, they need to know the litterers details to take action, and the registered keeper doesn't have to name the driver nor does the driver have to name the passenger, so unless they cooperate to shop their passenger, no action possible.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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fedup2
post Wed, 20 Sep 2017 - 18:18
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QUOTE (whjohnson @ Tue, 19 Sep 2017 - 23:42) *
Received a reply from the council as to why the DVLA refused to supply details -

QUOTE
They reported back that there wasn’t enough information. The information you provided is exactly the same as the evidence I normally submit.

I have responded with more information about the legislation we are acting under and the location.

Many thanks


Make of that what you will, but I live in a tourist village, and am sick to death of knuckle-dragging tramp-stamped numpties chucking their crap around when there are plenty of bins in the car parks.

We get the lot, dirty nappies, dog poo, chip papers etc etc.


But i guess the locals are very happy to take the same knuckle dragging tramp stamped numpties money being a tourist area?
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Umtwebby
post Thu, 21 Sep 2017 - 12:56
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 20 Sep 2017 - 18:21) *
Of course it does, they need to know the litterers details to take action, and the registered keeper doesn't have to name the driver nor does the driver have to name the passenger, so unless they cooperate to shop their passenger, no action possible.


And yet here we all are on a website where regular posts inform the registered keeper not to name the driver because that is exactly what a lot of people do.

Any other crimes that people should not be bothered about because it might be a little bit difficult?
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southpaw82
post Thu, 21 Sep 2017 - 13:03
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QUOTE (Umtwebby @ Thu, 21 Sep 2017 - 13:56) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 20 Sep 2017 - 18:21) *
Of course it does, they need to know the litterers details to take action, and the registered keeper doesn't have to name the driver nor does the driver have to name the passenger, so unless they cooperate to shop their passenger, no action possible.


And yet here we all are on a website where regular posts inform the registered keeper not to name the driver because that is exactly what a lot of people do.

Any other crimes that people should not be bothered about because it might be a little bit difficult?

How do you propose that the council prove the offender's identity to beyond a reasonable doubt?


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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Neil B
post Thu, 21 Sep 2017 - 13:48
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 20 Sep 2017 - 18:21) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Tue, 19 Sep 2017 - 23:30) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 19 Sep 2017 - 12:34) *
unless the registered keeper and driver cooperate, probably unlikely I'd say.

Doesn't come into it, anywhere.

Of course it does, they need to know the litterers details to take action, and the registered keeper doesn't have to name the driver nor does the driver have to name the passenger, so unless they cooperate to shop their passenger, no action possible.

I read that Rugby Council twist arms: Threatening with a 'pollution' section of the Environment Act 1995 if RKs don't cooperate.
Seems a bit extreme.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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