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Speedwatch intimidation - taking down everyone's registration
Daytona2
post Thu, 1 Aug 2019 - 16:54
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I've had my number taken twice today by the same bunch of Speedwatch people wearing police marked flourescent jackets when travelling below the speed limit. It's happened before in a different area as well. It didn't used to happen.

I'm wondering what rules the police have to adhere to about intimidation. I don't take kindly to having my details noted by police/police affiliated people in this circumstance. Isn't there some general concept about law abiding people being free to go about there lawful business without intimidation ?

I also wonder whether this is allowed under the data protection rules.
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post Thu, 1 Aug 2019 - 16:54
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The Slithy Tove
post Thu, 1 Aug 2019 - 16:57
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Anyone can stand on a street corner and write down registration numbers. How is writing down a number "intimidating"? Effectively they're just like train spotters.

Don't forget, your registration is (electronically) written down all over the place these days with the number of ANPR cameras about. It's only a problem if the information collected is abused.

This post has been edited by The Slithy Tove: Thu, 1 Aug 2019 - 16:58
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cp8759
post Thu, 1 Aug 2019 - 23:33
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QUOTE (The Slithy Tove @ Thu, 1 Aug 2019 - 17:57) *
Anyone can stand on a street corner and write down registration numbers. How is writing down a number "intimidating"? Effectively they're just like train spotters.

Don't forget, your registration is (electronically) written down all over the place these days with the number of ANPR cameras about. It's only a problem if the information collected is abused.

If the speedwatch scheme is sanctioned by the police, there's DPA implications. What legitimate policing purpose is served by taking down number plates in this way?


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The Slithy Tove
post Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 07:47
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 00:33) *
If the speedwatch scheme is sanctioned by the police, there's DPA implications. What legitimate policing purpose is served by taking down number plates in this way?

Probably get the same lame excuse as you would if you challenged them about their keeping your details every time you pass one the national network of ANPR cameras.
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Mat_Shamus
post Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 09:24
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 00:33) *
If the speedwatch scheme is sanctioned by the police, there's DPA implications. What legitimate policing purpose is served by taking down number plates in this way?


What are the DPA implications specifically and what impact would they have on you?


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Redivi
post Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 09:34
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Isn't data processing in connection with legal proceedings an exemption to the DPA ?

In this situation I would be draw their attention to my dashcam and keep the recording safe

As a thought, is it possible that they're also performing a survey and not recording the registrations but general details about vehicle type and speed ?



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The Rookie
post Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 09:42
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QUOTE (Redivi @ Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 10:34) *
Isn't data processing in connection with legal proceedings an exemption to the DPA ?

Do speedwatch records ever result in legal proceedings?


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TryOut
post Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 09:47
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QUOTE (Daytona2 @ Thu, 1 Aug 2019 - 17:54) *
I've had my number taken twice today by the same bunch of Speedwatch people wearing police marked flourescent jackets when travelling below the speed limit. It's happened before in a different area as well. It didn't used to happen.

I'm wondering what rules the police have to adhere to about intimidation. I don't take kindly to having my details noted by police/police affiliated people in this circumstance. Isn't there some general concept about law abiding people being free to go about there lawful business without intimidation ?

I also wonder whether this is allowed under the data protection rules.

What protection are you expecting for a registration number that is clearly visible on the front and rear of your vehicle?

How do you know the registration number was taken? Maybe they simply added some details, not necessarily your registration number, to a traffic survey.

Even if the registration and the date and time of the incident was recorded and passed to police and the police subsequently looked up your details and plotted it, as long as they abide by the DPA and surveillance regulations, they don't prevent you having your details taken if the police have a reason to do so and observe the protection of that data once it is captured.

The regulations are Data Protection, not Data Prevention.

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 10:42) *
QUOTE (Redivi @ Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 10:34) *
Isn't data processing in connection with legal proceedings an exemption to the DPA ?

Do speedwatch records ever result in legal proceedings?

Why couldn't they?
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The Rookie
post Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 09:49
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QUOTE (TryOut @ Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 10:47) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 10:42) *
QUOTE (Redivi @ Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 10:34) *
Isn't data processing in connection with legal proceedings an exemption to the DPA ?

Do speedwatch records ever result in legal proceedings?

Why couldn't they?

There are a whole raft of reasons why any proceeding may struggle to get the result the Police would want which is precisely WHY they don't result in proceedings, however that wasn't my question, it was 'do they' and the answer is no.


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Fredd
post Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 11:26
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QUOTE (TryOut @ Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 10:47) *
What protection are you expecting for a registration number that is clearly visible on the front and rear of your vehicle?

The ICO doesn't share your view that VRMs relating to individuals are fair game.


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southpaw82
post Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 11:47
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QUOTE (Fredd @ Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 12:26) *
QUOTE (TryOut @ Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 10:47) *
What protection are you expecting for a registration number that is clearly visible on the front and rear of your vehicle?

The ICO doesn't share your view that VRMs relating to individuals are fair game.

There’s a surprise. The authorities often seem to take the view that they can do as they like. This sometimes doesn’t work out for them.


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TryOut
post Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 13:08
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QUOTE (Fredd @ Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 12:26) *
QUOTE (TryOut @ Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 10:47) *
What protection are you expecting for a registration number that is clearly visible on the front and rear of your vehicle?

The ICO doesn't share your view that VRMs relating to individuals are fair game.

You missed out a key part of my post.

as long as they abide by the DPA and surveillance regulations, they don't prevent you having your details taken if the police have a reason to do so and observe the protection of that data once it is captured....
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southpaw82
post Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 13:12
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QUOTE (TryOut @ Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 14:08) *
QUOTE (Fredd @ Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 12:26) *
QUOTE (TryOut @ Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 10:47) *
What protection are you expecting for a registration number that is clearly visible on the front and rear of your vehicle?

The ICO doesn't share your view that VRMs relating to individuals are fair game.

You missed out a key part of my post.

as long as they abide by the DPA and surveillance regulations, they don't prevent you having your details taken if the police have a reason to do so and observe the protection of that data once it is captured....

So, relating your point to the OP’s question, if the speed watch people are indeed noting down every VRM, what is your view?


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nigelbb
post Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 13:54
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 10:42) *
QUOTE (Redivi @ Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 10:34) *
Isn't data processing in connection with legal proceedings an exemption to the DPA ?

Do speedwatch records ever result in legal proceedings?

This lot in Essex are apparently going to "issue penalty charge notice letters to speeding drivers." https://www.harwichandmanningtreestandard.c...rcement-powers/


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British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
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Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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oldstoat
post Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 15:49
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This lot in Essex are apparently going to "issue penalty charge notice letters to speeding drivers." https://www.harwichandmanningtreestandard.c...rcement-powers/

no matter the DPA implications If a member of the public sees a crime being committed are they not morally obliged to reprt said crime, with as much information as possible, to ensure that the miscreant is apprehended and then processed by the law?

Its a sorry state of affairs, when a subject of the Crown, cannot inform a sworn constable of a crime that they have witnessed and pass on all lawfully obtained evidence to the police


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Fredd
post Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 15:55
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QUOTE (oldstoat @ Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 16:49) *
Its a sorry state of affairs, when a subject of the Crown, cannot inform a sworn constable of a crime that they have witnessed and pass on all lawfully obtained evidence to the police

What are you smoking?


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cp8759
post Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 16:32
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QUOTE (Fredd @ Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 16:55) *
QUOTE (oldstoat @ Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 16:49) *
Its a sorry state of affairs, when a subject of the Crown, cannot inform a sworn constable of a crime that they have witnessed and pass on all lawfully obtained evidence to the police

What are you smoking?

He can't tell us, that would be a breach of data protection


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No, I am not a lawyer.
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666
post Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 17:08
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Leaving aside any DPA implications for the moment, let's consider the OP's charge of "intimidation".

If I saw someone on the pavement wielding an AK47 or a machete, I might feel intimidated. But a pencil and notebook? Is this what the cliche "generation snowflake" was invented for?
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Charlie1010
post Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 17:38
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‘Legislation - Human Rights and Data Protection
Community Residents should not normally
know the identity of drivers of speeding vehicles they report, it is however accepted that most Community Residents operate where they live so some recognition is inevitable.
In this event a professional approach would be expected such that driver details should not be disclosed and any personal information gathered should remain confidential.
Human Rights considerations in sending letters to registered keepers may be considered by some to be an infringement of an individual’s privacy. In the case of Community Speed Watch, the following factors would mitigate a challenge on privacy grounds:
• There is a social need
• It pursues a legitimate aim
• It is a strategy in the reduction of crime and
disorder
• It promotes and protects public safety
• It protects the rights and freedoms of other
members of the community for a safer
environment
• It is the least intrusive method
• It is proportionate to the problem
The Data Protection Act 1998 seeks to strike a balance between the rights of the individuals and the legitimate interests of those processing personal data
The Act bestows a duty on all bodies, when processing personal data to protect it from unauthorised use.
The eight principles of the Act set out the basic standards governing the processing of personal data relating to any living individual who could be identified from the data, or from any other information likely to be in the possession of the data controller. It is not the aim of the Act to prevent disclosures being made; instead it puts in place parameters within which disclosures can be made.
All Community Residents MUST be alert to the eight enforceable data principles of the Data Protection Act 1998:
• Personal data shall be processed fairly and lawfully
• Personal data shall be obtained only for one or more specified and lawful purpose, and shall not be further processed in any manner incompatible with that purpose(s)
• Personal data shall be adequate, relevant and not excessive in relation to the purpose(s) for which it is being processed.
• Personal data shall be accurate, and where necessary, kept up to date
• Personal data shall not be kept for longer than necessary
• Personal data shall be processed in accordance with the rights of the data subject under the Act
• Security – Appropriate measures taken to ensure against unauthorised or unlawful processing, accidental loss, destruction or damage to personal data
• Personal data shall not be transferred outside of the European Union (EU) unless the country has adequate levels of protections in relation to processing of personal data’

From here;

http://democracy.northyorks.gov.uk/Functio...n=GetFileFromDB

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southpaw82
post Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 19:40
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The Data Protection Act 1998?


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