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PCN North Tyneside council, But it gets a bit complicated...
HomerRamone
post Wed, 20 Jun 2018 - 18:03
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Got a PCN in Feb. I would have been quite happy to pay for a ticket except that the machine was out of order.
When I returned to the car and saw the ticket I took a photo of the busted machine.

When I got home I used the NTC website to file an informal appeal.
(Note:At this point as far as I was aware the vehicle was registered to my partner who has been the main user of the car for 18-24 months. Turns out this is not the case and we never changed the name on the document when I got another vehicle for my work commute. But the registered keeper is not necessarily the legal owner anyway right ?)

Anyhoo, after 2 months a reply arrived, addressed to my partner which basically said that they are not prepared to cancel the ticket.
The reply went on at some length to explain that had experienced an unprecidented level of vandalism with their ticket machines and as a result they have been trialling a cashless options in a number of car parks.
It also explained that a mobile payment option was available.
They further goes on to list a number of places that are trialling the cashless scheme.
Finally it explains that I can pay the £25 if I pay within 14 days.

It also gives the option to pay £50 within 28 days
or
Formally challenge the PCN.
It explains that in order to challenge the PCN you need to wait for the Notice to Owner form to arrive.

This was the last we heard for 2 months.
Yesterday another letter arrived. This was addressed to me.
I was expecting it to be the Notice to Owner and did wonder why it was addressed to me.
When I opened it, it is not the Notice to Owner but a Charge Certificate.
(It was at this point I checked the V5 and found it was still in my name. Doh).

So the Charge says says that as I have not paid and as I am the registered keeper I must now pay £75.
It was my intention to challenge the PCN since it seems somewhat unfair for me to be EXPECTED to know if the machine is busted I can use a mobile, as well as have a means to pay using my mobile phone - or indeed to even ASSUME I actually have a mobile in the first place. Whilst most people do not everyone does. (Mine is largley a glorified MP3 player in point of fact).

So where do I stand now ? Do I have to pay the £75 ?

Thanks in advance.
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post Wed, 20 Jun 2018 - 18:03
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nextdoor
post Wed, 20 Jun 2018 - 18:11
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Wait for the Order for Recovery, which will explain how to make a witness statement that you didn't receive an NtO
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stamfordman
post Wed, 20 Jun 2018 - 18:14
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If the NTO didn't come the usual procedure now is to wait for the order for (debt) recovery and then make a statement you didn't get the NTO, which resets the process.

is the address OK on the charge certificate and do you have any problems with post.

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Mad Mick V
post Wed, 20 Jun 2018 - 18:34
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The latest Orders appear to require payment either by coin or by phone:-

On street:-

https://tro.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/T...neside/NH25.pdf

Off Street:-

https://tro.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/T...neside/NH23.pdf

The On Street Order has an error in that para 24 does not exist----

(7) Save as provided in paragraph (24) of this Article, no vehicle shall Wait in a Parking
Place with a Parking Charge during the hours of operation:-

(i) Without displaying a valid parking ticket in the relevant position for that
parking place issued by a ticket machine; or
(ii) Without payment of the relevant parking charge having been made
electronically to the Council or its agent via the use of a mobile device in the
manner described on signs or stickers located at or near the parking place.

Mick
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HomerRamone
post Thu, 21 Jun 2018 - 06:24
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I guess ill just wait for the `order for (debt) recovery ` to arrive then.
(I did start writing a letter pointing out what a monumental mess they appear to be making of this process but didnt sent it as I found this forum whilst looking for more info smile.gif )

RE post - the address on the notice is correct and we have no issues with post. (At least none that im aware of !)

Thanks
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HomerRamone
post Thu, 21 Jun 2018 - 06:38
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I'm left wondering then if the changes to the orders mean that the busted machine simply will get brushed aside.

Glossing over the fact that I wasn't aware of the fact you are now obliged to pay over the phone if the machine is broken, and the fact that I might have neither a phone nor any kind of card on my person with which to pay over the phone. Not sure why should be expected to take some kinda of bank card when taking your dog for a walk - that seems somewhat unreasonable to me.

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DancingDad
post Thu, 21 Jun 2018 - 09:49
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Wait for Order for Recovery.
If not received by 3rd week of date of CC, chase it up with council.... where is my OfR ????
Be proactive on this, it gets messy if you miss it.

Re the PCN, not relevant yet but may be.... does your photo show any signs that say payment by phone ??
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HomerRamone
post Thu, 21 Jun 2018 - 09:55
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Ok. Will do.

There i no mention of phone payments in the photo - the top part of the machine is cut off sad.gif

There's a bit that amounts to "you can go buy a ticket in another car park and it will be valid".

Course I didn't read this at the time - I just saw the busted machine when I arrived [to an almost empty car park] and thought "well I guess I cant buy a ticket then"

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DancingDad
post Thu, 21 Jun 2018 - 10:03
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QUOTE (HomerRamone @ Thu, 21 Jun 2018 - 10:55) *
Ok. Will do.

There i no mention of phone payments in the photo - the top part of the machine is cut off sad.gif

There's a bit that amounts to "you can go buy a ticket in another car park and it will be valid".

Course I didn't read this at the time - I just saw the busted machine when I arrived [to an almost empty car park] and thought "well I guess I cant buy a ticket then"



To me that is the issue.... if signage says something like "If machine out of order, pay by phone" then may well be on a loser.
But if it doesn't, different matter.
Well late but can you revisit and see what signs say now.... if in your favour, grab some photos.
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HomerRamone
post Thu, 21 Jun 2018 - 10:19
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Yup, will revisit sometime soon. (Took them almost 2 months to actually fix the machine.)

Thanks again.
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