Car Insurance 'Automatically Renewing', Rant |
Car Insurance 'Automatically Renewing', Rant |
Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 20:20
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#1
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Member Group: Life Member Posts: 24,214 Joined: 9 Sep 2004 From: Reading Member No.: 1,624 |
It's probably about a year since I had a good rant about car insurance. Not the cost of it, or even the fact that you often don't get to find out what you're buying until after you bought it (e.g. does it provide cover for driving other vehicles), but the perennial (or annual) favourite - 'auto renewing'.
I bought a 12 month policy from the insurer in question (lets call them Hastings Direct, because that's who it is), and they subsequently informed me that they would be automatically renewing it when it expires. I never asked for this, and I never agreed to this, and they did not provide an option to decline this, other than telephoning their customer services recorded message but don't actually get to speak to anybody service. For the sake of balance, it seems that most insurers operate a similar criminal scam - although ISTR thar Swiftcover actually allows you to simply tick a "do not autorenew" box on their web portal. Presumably Axa will be similar as they are the same company (assuming of course that they haven't removed the option as it enabled customers to leave). Hastings have written to me and emailed my the same correspondence (from a no-reply@ email address, naturally). Not that it's any of their business, but my circumstances have changed, as has my car, and I have a far more competitively priced policy for my new car, and they can go f*ck themselves. Well actually, that last bit shouldn't be part of the 'not that it's any of their business' bit. It generally takes me less than 2 minutes to buy insurance online. I wasted over 11 minutes not getting to speak to anybody on their cusotmer services line this evening. However, I've got them snookered - the card I used to pay for my expiring policy has itself expired - except that they've thought of that - they are going to renew it anyway and charge me for it. -------------------- Andy
Some people think that I make them feel stupid. To be fair, they deserve most of the credit. |
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Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 20:20
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Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 21:57
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
So when you noticed you couldn't decline the autorenew option at the time of purchase, your reason for not writing a letter instructing Hastings Direct not to auto-renew within a few days of buying the policy was what exactly?
That being said, this is nothing a complaint can't sort out. Given the fact that you could escalate it to the FOS, Hastings Direct will want to keep you happy. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 22:20
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#3
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Member Group: Life Member Posts: 24,214 Joined: 9 Sep 2004 From: Reading Member No.: 1,624 |
So when you noticed you couldn't decline the autorenew option at the time of purchase, your reason for not writing a letter instructing Hastings Direct not to auto-renew within a few days of buying the policy was what exactly? It is exactly "none of your business". The point being that I should not have to write a letter to stop these crooks trying to charge me for something I never asked for or agreed to. I'll give you £5 for your car (or horse). If I do not hear back from you, I will consider you to have accepted. -------------------- Andy
Some people think that I make them feel stupid. To be fair, they deserve most of the credit. |
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Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 23:34
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,397 Joined: 12 Jun 2008 From: West Sussex Member No.: 20,304 |
. . . charge me for something I never asked for or agreed to. . . . . Did you actually read every last page of their Terms & Conditions? I wouldn't mind betting it's buried deep in there somewhere and that you did indeed agree to this. I am certainly with you on this though. While auto-renewal may be a good idea for someone who can't be arsed to shop around (Money > Sense), it is clearly a "service" designed to allow them to hike the price and reap the benefit. If they are as difficult to talk to as you suggest, I would simply send written notice either by email (if you can find an address!) or snail-mail and then do a charge-back for an unauthorised transaction if they ignored it. |
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Fri, 10 Jan 2020 - 07:36
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,768 Joined: 17 Mar 2013 Member No.: 60,602 |
In France all vehicle insurance policies automatically renew unless you explicitly cancel within a 30 day window before the renewal date. The intention is to ensure that vehicles are not left inadvertently uninsured by idiotic motorists not as clued up as Andy.
-------------------- British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012 |
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Fri, 10 Jan 2020 - 08:02
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,283 Joined: 5 Jan 2012 Member No.: 52,178 |
the card I used to pay for my expiring policy has itself expired - except that they've thought of that - they are going to renew it anyway and charge me for it. Are there any card providers who supply cards with only a year's "lifetime" (expiry date) at a time? Such a card would be useful for anything subscription based (including insurance), providing an automatic escape from such predatory tactics. Yes, I hate auto-renew, too, and always decline if I realise they are attempting to do it. |
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Fri, 10 Jan 2020 - 10:29
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#7
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Member Group: Life Member Posts: 1,668 Joined: 9 Nov 2008 From: Doldrums Member No.: 23,903 |
I am on board with Andy on this. All of sudden and for the first time this year my insurance automatically renewed. Has something changed have the powers to be changed and allow insurance companies to automatically renew be cause previously many people have been driving whilst under the impression they have re-insured when in actual fact they have not.
Is it becoming an adopted way of running the business. Bit like you now having to opt out of donoring your organs, when you die. This post has been edited by Mayhem007: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 - 10:29 -------------------- STAND UP FOR YOURSELF OR YOU WILL FALL FOR ANYTHING
Ultracrepadarion - A person who offers an opinion on a subject they know nothing about. |
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Fri, 10 Jan 2020 - 11:00
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 7,235 Joined: 5 Jan 2007 From: England Member No.: 9,919 |
QUOTE (Steve_999) Did you actually read every last page of their Terms & Conditions? I wouldn't mind betting it's buried deep in there somewhere and that you did indeed agree to this. There are rules against burying important fact in T&Cs. only a year's "lifetime" (expiry date) at a time? Such a card would be useful for anything subscription based (including insurance), providing an automatic escape from such predatory tactics. If you subscribe to something and your card expires or you cancel it the company will go to your card provider and claim directly from your account the card is linked to. |
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Sat, 11 Jan 2020 - 04:59
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
I'll give you £5 for your car (or horse). If I do not hear back from you, I will consider you to have accepted. You have 24 hours to retract, if you don't I shall consider your acceptance irrevocable and will pm you the address where my car can be collected from It is exactly "none of your business". The point being that I should not have to write a letter to stop these crooks trying to charge me for something I never asked for or agreed to. You shouldn't, the point being that it would have been advisable to do so anyway even though you shouldn't have to, as being pro-active in this respect can be a lot less hassle than having to reclaim the money afterwards. But because you shouldn't have to is why you are likely to get a full and immediate refund if you raise a formal complaint. I was actually trying to be helpful. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Sat, 11 Jan 2020 - 09:27
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,300 Joined: 17 Jun 2011 Member No.: 47,602 |
If you subscribe to something and your card expires or you cancel it the company will go to your card provider and claim directly from your account the card is linked to. How does that work? I have three credit cards, none of which are 'linked' to any bank account. |
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Sat, 11 Jan 2020 - 10:00
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
If you subscribe to something and your card expires or you cancel it the company will go to your card provider and claim directly from your account the card is linked to. How does that work? I have three credit cards, none of which are 'linked' to any bank account. The card account, the account debited from when you use the card. he didn't say 'bank account' so why you jumped to that is beyond me. -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Sat, 11 Jan 2020 - 10:10
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,864 Joined: 2 Aug 2016 Member No.: 86,040 |
There used to be a thing - not sure if it is ever still used - called "continuous payment authority". That could eventually (no idea how) eventually transcend cancelled accounts (as opposed to cancelled cards).
A somewhat old description. https://conversation.which.co.uk/money/cont...comment-page-2/ |
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Sat, 11 Jan 2020 - 12:41
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 341 Joined: 13 May 2011 Member No.: 46,634 |
I have always found Hastings to be very helpful when I have moaned about something hence I was with them over twenty years and probably still would be but they couldn't cover my latest vehicle. I can supply you with the email address I used to get everything sorted out if you want 😉
-------------------- POPLA BPA BPA Ltd BPA AOS AOS PPC PCN PE CEL
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Sat, 11 Jan 2020 - 14:25
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#14
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Webmaster Group: Root Admin Posts: 8,205 Joined: 30 Mar 2003 From: Wokingham, UK Member No.: 2 |
There used to be a thing - not sure if it is ever still used - called "continuous payment authority". That could eventually (no idea how) eventually transcend cancelled accounts (as opposed to cancelled cards). Simple - you authorised the payments while the account was open, and closing the account doesn't expunge your liability for those payments. The problem with CPAs is that you're authorising the merchant to charge the card, and it used to be that they could only be cancelled by the merchant. The FCA changed the rules some years ago so that you can now get the card issuer to cancel them if the merchant is being difficult (or maybe can't even be contacted). -------------------- Regards,
Fredd __________________________________________________________________________
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Sun, 12 Jan 2020 - 17:57
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,214 Joined: 24 Mar 2013 From: Scotland Member No.: 60,732 |
I've been lucky that the insurers I've used over the last few years have all been easy enough to contact to cancel auto renewal. I think I've usually combined it with giving them an opportunity to price match, which they've never taken up.
Last hassle on these lines was a few years ago with the motorcycle insurance, the incorrectly ticked the "do not renew" box in their system instead of "do not auto-renew". The result was I got a letter from them effectively refusing cover, which would have been pretty nasty to have on my record. |
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Mon, 13 Jan 2020 - 00:17
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
I think the law now says that you must get a letter on renewal telling you what you paid before and therefore can choose not to renew. I've had problems with Hastings renewing when I've taken my eye off the ball - they renew at a higher rate than if you ran the quote again, but I'm sure they are not alone in that. I got the auto review refunded easily though and took out the lower one (for my son).
Hastings are by far the cheapest for young drivers I think so it's worth dealing with them. This post has been edited by stamfordman: Mon, 13 Jan 2020 - 00:17 |
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Mon, 13 Jan 2020 - 12:21
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 364 Joined: 30 Apr 2013 Member No.: 61,506 |
QUOTE Did you actually read every last page of their Terms & Conditions? I wouldn't mind betting it's buried deep in there somewhere and that you did indeed agree to this. There are rules against burying important fact in T&Cs. only a year's "lifetime" (expiry date) at a time? Such a card would be useful for anything subscription based (including insurance), providing an automatic escape from such predatory tactics. If you subscribe to something and your card expires or you cancel it the company will go to your card provider and claim directly from your account the card is linked to. Worse than that. A few years ago I didn't want to renew my home insurance. It was set to auto-renew. I had CHANGED bank accounts. To a different bank. I banked with a completely different bank. The old account was closed. The old insurer tried my card, it failed but my old bank told them who I'd changed to (I'd used one of those 'switch services'). Hastings (and it was them) contacted new bank, and obtained my new card details and charged that! Santander was more than happy to give my card details out to anyone who asked. |
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Mon, 10 Feb 2020 - 19:14
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#18
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Member Group: Life Member Posts: 24,214 Joined: 9 Sep 2004 From: Reading Member No.: 1,624 |
On a slight tangent from the original rant (which is allowed by the rules as I am the OP, this is the Flame Pit, and it concerns potentially aggressive trading practices - which is a criminal offence under CPUTR 2008)...
One of my motorcycle insurance policies ran out recently. Perhaps surprisingly (or perhaps not), they did not try to auto-renew. However, they (lets call them MCE as that's who it is) have communicated the fact that the policy variously was due to lapse and has lapsed multiple times through multiple media (letters, phone calls, texts, emails). My issue/question is primarily not about the unnecessary and repetitive badgering, but a passage in the latest email - "We are required by law to advise you that it is an offence under the Road Traffic Acts of 1988 to use a motor vehicle on a public highway or other public place without adequate third party insurance.". Are they really required by law to tell me that? If so, does anyone know which law that is? The issue is (IMHO) if it is not true (that they are required by law...). Read calmly by regulars on here who know the relevant laws backwards, the statement would have no effect. However, if (mis)read by the man on the Clapham omnibus, the effect of the statement might not be so benign. -------------------- Andy
Some people think that I make them feel stupid. To be fair, they deserve most of the credit. |
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Mon, 10 Feb 2020 - 19:33
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 7,235 Joined: 5 Jan 2007 From: England Member No.: 9,919 |
My issue/question is primarily not about the unnecessary and repetitive badgering, but a passage in the latest email - "We are required by law to advise you that it is an offence under the Road Traffic Acts of 1988 to use a motor vehicle on a public highway or other public place without adequate third party insurance.". ive had that exact same message on letters from 3 insurers in last few months after not renewing with them. |
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Tue, 11 Feb 2020 - 07:46
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,283 Joined: 5 Jan 2012 Member No.: 52,178 |
"We are required by law to advise you that it is an offence under the Road Traffic Acts of 1988 to use a motor vehicle on a public highway or other public place without adequate third party insurance.". Are they really required by law to tell me that? If so, does anyone know which law that is? Why not write back to them and ask them to justify their claim, citing which statute backs it up? |
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