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Car Insurance 'Automatically Renewing', Rant
andy_foster
post Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 20:20
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It's probably about a year since I had a good rant about car insurance. Not the cost of it, or even the fact that you often don't get to find out what you're buying until after you bought it (e.g. does it provide cover for driving other vehicles), but the perennial (or annual) favourite - 'auto renewing'.

I bought a 12 month policy from the insurer in question (lets call them Hastings Direct, because that's who it is), and they subsequently informed me that they would be automatically renewing it when it expires. I never asked for this, and I never agreed to this, and they did not provide an option to decline this, other than telephoning their customer services recorded message but don't actually get to speak to anybody service.

For the sake of balance, it seems that most insurers operate a similar criminal scam - although ISTR thar Swiftcover actually allows you to simply tick a "do not autorenew" box on their web portal. Presumably Axa will be similar as they are the same company (assuming of course that they haven't removed the option as it enabled customers to leave).

Hastings have written to me and emailed my the same correspondence (from a no-reply@ email address, naturally). Not that it's any of their business, but my circumstances have changed, as has my car, and I have a far more competitively priced policy for my new car, and they can go f*ck themselves. Well actually, that last bit shouldn't be part of the 'not that it's any of their business' bit.

It generally takes me less than 2 minutes to buy insurance online. I wasted over 11 minutes not getting to speak to anybody on their cusotmer services line this evening.

However, I've got them snookered - the card I used to pay for my expiring policy has itself expired - except that they've thought of that - they are going to renew it anyway and charge me for it.



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cp8759
post Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 21:57
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So when you noticed you couldn't decline the autorenew option at the time of purchase, your reason for not writing a letter instructing Hastings Direct not to auto-renew within a few days of buying the policy was what exactly?

That being said, this is nothing a complaint can't sort out. Given the fact that you could escalate it to the FOS, Hastings Direct will want to keep you happy.


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andy_foster
post Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 22:20
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 21:57) *
So when you noticed you couldn't decline the autorenew option at the time of purchase, your reason for not writing a letter instructing Hastings Direct not to auto-renew within a few days of buying the policy was what exactly?


It is exactly "none of your business".
The point being that I should not have to write a letter to stop these crooks trying to charge me for something I never asked for or agreed to.

I'll give you £5 for your car (or horse). If I do not hear back from you, I will consider you to have accepted.



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Steve_999
post Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 23:34
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QUOTE (andy_foster @ Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 22:20) *
. . . charge me for something I never asked for or agreed to.
. . . .


Did you actually read every last page of their Terms & Conditions? I wouldn't mind betting it's buried deep in there somewhere and that you did indeed agree to this.

I am certainly with you on this though. While auto-renewal may be a good idea for someone who can't be arsed to shop around (Money > Sense), it is clearly a "service" designed to allow them to hike the price and reap the benefit. If they are as difficult to talk to as you suggest, I would simply send written notice either by email (if you can find an address!) or snail-mail and then do a charge-back for an unauthorised transaction if they ignored it.
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nigelbb
post Fri, 10 Jan 2020 - 07:36
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In France all vehicle insurance policies automatically renew unless you explicitly cancel within a 30 day window before the renewal date. The intention is to ensure that vehicles are not left inadvertently uninsured by idiotic motorists not as clued up as Andy.


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Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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The Slithy Tove
post Fri, 10 Jan 2020 - 08:02
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QUOTE (andy_foster @ Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 20:20) *
the card I used to pay for my expiring policy has itself expired - except that they've thought of that - they are going to renew it anyway and charge me for it.

Are there any card providers who supply cards with only a year's "lifetime" (expiry date) at a time? Such a card would be useful for anything subscription based (including insurance), providing an automatic escape from such predatory tactics.

Yes, I hate auto-renew, too, and always decline if I realise they are attempting to do it.
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Mayhem007
post Fri, 10 Jan 2020 - 10:29
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I am on board with Andy on this. All of sudden and for the first time this year my insurance automatically renewed. Has something changed have the powers to be changed and allow insurance companies to automatically renew be cause previously many people have been driving whilst under the impression they have re-insured when in actual fact they have not.

Is it becoming an adopted way of running the business. Bit like you now having to opt out of donoring your organs, when you die.

This post has been edited by Mayhem007: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 - 10:29


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mickR
post Fri, 10 Jan 2020 - 11:00
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QUOTE (Steve_999)
Did you actually read every last page of their Terms & Conditions? I wouldn't mind betting it's buried deep in there somewhere and that you did indeed agree to this.


There are rules against burying important fact in T&Cs.

QUOTE (The Slithy Tove @ Fri, 10 Jan 2020 - 08:02) *
only a year's "lifetime" (expiry date) at a time? Such a card would be useful for anything subscription based (including insurance), providing an automatic escape from such predatory tactics.


If you subscribe to something and your card expires or you cancel it the company will go to your card provider and claim directly from your account the card is linked to.
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cp8759
post Sat, 11 Jan 2020 - 04:59
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QUOTE (andy_foster @ Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 22:20) *
I'll give you £5 for your car (or horse). If I do not hear back from you, I will consider you to have accepted.

You have 24 hours to retract, if you don't I shall consider your acceptance irrevocable and will pm you the address where my car can be collected from biggrin.gif

QUOTE (andy_foster @ Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 22:20) *
It is exactly "none of your business".
The point being that I should not have to write a letter to stop these crooks trying to charge me for something I never asked for or agreed to.

You shouldn't, the point being that it would have been advisable to do so anyway even though you shouldn't have to, as being pro-active in this respect can be a lot less hassle than having to reclaim the money afterwards.

But because you shouldn't have to is why you are likely to get a full and immediate refund if you raise a formal complaint. I was actually trying to be helpful.


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666
post Sat, 11 Jan 2020 - 09:27
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QUOTE (mickR @ Fri, 10 Jan 2020 - 11:00) *
If you subscribe to something and your card expires or you cancel it the company will go to your card provider and claim directly from your account the card is linked to.

How does that work? I have three credit cards, none of which are 'linked' to any bank account.
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The Rookie
post Sat, 11 Jan 2020 - 10:00
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QUOTE (666 @ Sat, 11 Jan 2020 - 09:27) *
QUOTE (mickR @ Fri, 10 Jan 2020 - 11:00) *
If you subscribe to something and your card expires or you cancel it the company will go to your card provider and claim directly from your account the card is linked to.

How does that work? I have three credit cards, none of which are 'linked' to any bank account.

The card account, the account debited from when you use the card. he didn't say 'bank account' so why you jumped to that is beyond me.


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Slapdash
post Sat, 11 Jan 2020 - 10:10
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There used to be a thing - not sure if it is ever still used - called "continuous payment authority". That could eventually (no idea how) eventually transcend cancelled accounts (as opposed to cancelled cards).

A somewhat old description.

https://conversation.which.co.uk/money/cont...comment-page-2/
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madbasshunter
post Sat, 11 Jan 2020 - 12:41
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I have always found Hastings to be very helpful when I have moaned about something hence I was with them over twenty years and probably still would be but they couldn't cover my latest vehicle. I can supply you with the email address I used to get everything sorted out if you want 😉


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Fredd
post Sat, 11 Jan 2020 - 14:25
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QUOTE (Slapdash @ Sat, 11 Jan 2020 - 10:10) *
There used to be a thing - not sure if it is ever still used - called "continuous payment authority". That could eventually (no idea how) eventually transcend cancelled accounts (as opposed to cancelled cards).

Simple - you authorised the payments while the account was open, and closing the account doesn't expunge your liability for those payments.

The problem with CPAs is that you're authorising the merchant to charge the card, and it used to be that they could only be cancelled by the merchant. The FCA changed the rules some years ago so that you can now get the card issuer to cancel them if the merchant is being difficult (or maybe can't even be contacted).


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TonyS
post Sun, 12 Jan 2020 - 17:57
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I've been lucky that the insurers I've used over the last few years have all been easy enough to contact to cancel auto renewal. I think I've usually combined it with giving them an opportunity to price match, which they've never taken up.

Last hassle on these lines was a few years ago with the motorcycle insurance, the incorrectly ticked the "do not renew" box in their system instead of "do not auto-renew". The result was I got a letter from them effectively refusing cover, which would have been pretty nasty to have on my record.
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stamfordman
post Mon, 13 Jan 2020 - 00:17
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I think the law now says that you must get a letter on renewal telling you what you paid before and therefore can choose not to renew. I've had problems with Hastings renewing when I've taken my eye off the ball - they renew at a higher rate than if you ran the quote again, but I'm sure they are not alone in that. I got the auto review refunded easily though and took out the lower one (for my son).

Hastings are by far the cheapest for young drivers I think so it's worth dealing with them.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Mon, 13 Jan 2020 - 00:17
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thevaliant
post Mon, 13 Jan 2020 - 12:21
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QUOTE (mickR @ Fri, 10 Jan 2020 - 11:00) *
QUOTE
Did you actually read every last page of their Terms & Conditions? I wouldn't mind betting it's buried deep in there somewhere and that you did indeed agree to this.


There are rules against burying important fact in T&Cs.

QUOTE ( @ Fri, 10 Jan 2020 - 08:02) *
only a year's "lifetime" (expiry date) at a time? Such a card would be useful for anything subscription based (including insurance), providing an automatic escape from such predatory tactics.


If you subscribe to something and your card expires or you cancel it the company will go to your card provider and claim directly from your account the card is linked to.


Worse than that. A few years ago I didn't want to renew my home insurance. It was set to auto-renew.
I had CHANGED bank accounts. To a different bank. I banked with a completely different bank. The old account was closed.
The old insurer tried my card, it failed but my old bank told them who I'd changed to (I'd used one of those 'switch services'). Hastings (and it was them) contacted new bank, and obtained my new card details and charged that! Santander was more than happy to give my card details out to anyone who asked.
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andy_foster
post Mon, 10 Feb 2020 - 19:14
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On a slight tangent from the original rant (which is allowed by the rules as I am the OP, this is the Flame Pit, and it concerns potentially aggressive trading practices - which is a criminal offence under CPUTR 2008)...

One of my motorcycle insurance policies ran out recently. Perhaps surprisingly (or perhaps not), they did not try to auto-renew. However, they (lets call them MCE as that's who it is) have communicated the fact that the policy variously was due to lapse and has lapsed multiple times through multiple media (letters, phone calls, texts, emails). My issue/question is primarily not about the unnecessary and repetitive badgering, but a passage in the latest email - "We are required by law to advise you that it is an offence under the Road Traffic Acts of 1988 to use a motor vehicle on a public highway or other public place without adequate third party insurance.".

Are they really required by law to tell me that? If so, does anyone know which law that is?
The issue is (IMHO) if it is not true (that they are required by law...). Read calmly by regulars on here who know the relevant laws backwards, the statement would have no effect. However, if (mis)read by the man on the Clapham omnibus, the effect of the statement might not be so benign.


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Andy

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mickR
post Mon, 10 Feb 2020 - 19:33
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QUOTE (andy_foster @ Mon, 10 Feb 2020 - 19:14) *
My issue/question is primarily not about the unnecessary and repetitive badgering, but a passage in the latest email - "We are required by law to advise you that it is an offence under the Road Traffic Acts of 1988 to use a motor vehicle on a public highway or other public place without adequate third party insurance.".


ive had that exact same message on letters from 3 insurers in last few months after not renewing with them.
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The Slithy Tove
post Tue, 11 Feb 2020 - 07:46
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QUOTE (andy_foster @ Mon, 10 Feb 2020 - 19:14) *
"We are required by law to advise you that it is an offence under the Road Traffic Acts of 1988 to use a motor vehicle on a public highway or other public place without adequate third party insurance.".

Are they really required by law to tell me that? If so, does anyone know which law that is?

Why not write back to them and ask them to justify their claim, citing which statute backs it up?
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