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cp8759
Posted on: Today, 17:52


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We've seen tribunal decisions go either way, and I think more of the recent ones were favourable to the enforcement authorities.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1443309 · Replies: 23 · Views: 355

cp8759
Posted on: Today, 17:49


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Well you've got continuous contravention, and proportionality (see the two cases I've linked to in this thread http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?s=&...t&p=1370774)
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1443306 · Replies: 12 · Views: 69

cp8759
Posted on: Today, 17:33


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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 17 Dec 2018 - 13:25) *
The drivers insurance claim form?

Surely that would be hearsay?
  Forum: The Flame Pit · Post Preview: #1443298 · Replies: 270 · Views: 10,256

cp8759
Posted on: Today, 17:30


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I think they've just got their section numbering wrong, but can't see any obvious errors as far as legal requirements go.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1443296 · Replies: 13 · Views: 93

cp8759
Posted on: Today, 17:25


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QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Mon, 17 Dec 2018 - 14:24) *
TSRGD isn't law...

Sorry what?!?
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1443293 · Replies: 32 · Views: 1,800

cp8759
Posted on: Today, 17:20


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This isn't a civil matter and Hertfordshire Constabulary are the prosecutor rather than the claimant. Well, they're the prosecutor until the CPS take over the case, which by law they must do.

Personally I would send a copy of the statement both to Hertfordshire Constabulary and Thames and Chiltern CPS, just to cover all bases.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1443292 · Replies: 84 · Views: 7,239

cp8759
Posted on: Today, 17:11


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By law the TRO is a publicly available document, but only if you actually go to the council offices and ask for see it (which isn't an option if you're not local). Can't see any downside in contacting Mr Ali, though he may not respond if you don't live in his ward.

FOI requests should not generally be used for TROs as they take far too long, but in this case I would send off a FOI request anyway because even if all else fails, they can't ignore a FOI request and if nothing you're almost certain to get it within the 20 working day time limit. Just ask for the Traffic Management Order governing parking in Park Road, E15.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1443289 · Replies: 15 · Views: 126

cp8759
Posted on: Today, 17:02


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Right so for starters there's an 0845 number on the PCN, so this ground applies: http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...p;#entry1432909

QUOTE (endorfin @ Mon, 17 Dec 2018 - 16:57) *
I've tried to see any photos of it on the appeal site but there's no option to view the photos.
You can only appeal by writing in or sending an email.

https://www.wppp.org.uk/Content/challengePage.aspx

Send them an email asking for photos. Say explicitly that you are not challenging the PCN, you just want the pictures.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1443286 · Replies: 6 · Views: 12

cp8759
Posted on: Today, 16:55


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PASTMYBEST if you' receive a letter that isn't for you and you want to return it to sender, you can't really return it by email, at least not until this chap perfects his invention https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZOAbjqrGBk

Remember the OP isn't making representations, he's just returning an item of mis-delivered correspondence biggrin.gif
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1443280 · Replies: 24 · Views: 156

cp8759
Posted on: Today, 16:50


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Upload all the pages of the PCN, redacting just your name and address. If any of the legal wording is missing, that's a virtually guaranteed win.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1443278 · Replies: 13 · Views: 93

cp8759
Posted on: Today, 16:48


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QUOTE (edrx7 @ Mon, 17 Dec 2018 - 16:07) *
1. Nowhere does it state that you are leaving the controlled zone so how do you know if its ended?

There are "end of zone" signs when you go the other way: https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5574657,-0....6384!8i8192

QUOTE (edrx7 @ Mon, 17 Dec 2018 - 16:07) *
2. If the signs are the be all and end all and that is " THE " notification of the zone, why are there signs on other nearby roads and on the residents bay giving the same restrictions.....but where i parked there were none on that road?... almost like double standards... can be bothered with some roads but others we cant...

The zone only governs single yellow lines. Residents bays have to have their own signs as they are not governed by the CPZ sign

QUOTE (edrx7 @ Mon, 17 Dec 2018 - 16:07) *
can i not argue that i had no opportunity to remedy the situation as the car was removed on sunday morning... before i woke up?

You can certainly argue that but it's really only mitigation.

QUOTE (edrx7 @ Mon, 17 Dec 2018 - 16:07) *
What makes it worse is the the clamping contractor ( serco) were adamant i must pay the second ticket and the removal fee before they release the car... otherwise wouldnt i have grounds under continuous contravention?

The fact that the car was towed doesn't mean you can't claim continuous contravention.

QUOTE (edrx7 @ Mon, 17 Dec 2018 - 16:07) *

Those roads are outside the CPZ and are a Permit Parking Area, which is a different type of restriction so it needs different signage.

The only way out of this is if you find where you entered the zone, and check if the signs at that entrance are missing, damaged or obscured. Other than that you can only argue continuous contravention and proportionality. But as there's no further risks in challenging the charges, you might as well try.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1443276 · Replies: 12 · Views: 69

cp8759
Posted on: Today, 16:37


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There is certain mandatory wording that the council must include on the PCN, if the small print is incorrect the PCN is invalid and it cannot be enforced, no matter how banged-to-rights the contravention might be.

It's for the council to adduce evidence that the contravention occurred, so being able to see their photos allows us to determine whether they have met the burden of evidence.

Seeing the location allows us to determine A) whether there's any conflicting signage issues and B) Check whether there is a Traffic Regulation Order backup up the yellow lines, as without a TRO the lines have no legal value.

You came here for expert advice, we're trying to help you, we wouldn't ask for information if it were of no value.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1443270 · Replies: 6 · Views: 12

cp8759
Posted on: Today, 16:33


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If you send it with proof of postage on 2nd January then by law it is deemed to be served on the council on Friday 4 January, as per section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978:

7 References to service by post.
Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression “serve” or the expression “give” or “send” or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have been effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.


https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1978/30/section/7

As an aside, the backlog of Christmas post is normally dealt with within a day or so after Christmas.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1443269 · Replies: 24 · Views: 156

cp8759
Posted on: Today, 16:28


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Need the bottom half of the front, and all of the back as well. However this adjudication springs to mind:

Mary Harding v Royal Borough of Kingston Upon Thames (case reference 2160271291)
This PCN was issued for the alleged contravention of being parked in a parking place or area not designated for that class of vehicle.The PCN was issued at 12.56pm on 27 April 2016 and the location was Lenelby Road.
The Schedule to The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General Regulations 2007 sets out the contents required by the Regulations for a valid PCN served under Regulation 9.
Among other things, the PCN is required to state the grounds on which the enforcement authority believes that the penalty charge is payable. Those grounds must be expressed in terms that allow the recipient of the PCN to properly understand the nature of the alleged contravention.
The Council say that the place in which Mrs Harding's vehicle was parked was a goods vehicle only loading bay. In other words, the bay was designated for goods vehicles only. This is not, however, clear on the face of the PCN which states simply that the vehicle was parked in a place not designated for that class of vehicle.
A motorist reading the PCN would not understand from the wording the nature of the alleged contravention because there is nothing to explain the class of vehicle for which the parking place was designated. The PCN needs to identify, whether by wording or images, that the class of vehicle for which the bay is designated is goods vehicles only.
I therefore find that the PCN was invalid and the appeal is allowed for that reason.


Of course, we can't say whether the Scottish tribunal would be persuaded to follow the same reasoning.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1443266 · Replies: 4 · Views: 25

cp8759
Posted on: Today, 16:25


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QUOTE (theatretony @ Mon, 17 Dec 2018 - 15:52) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 17 Dec 2018 - 15:40) *
It's just a warning, tell her not to park there again.



I have done and rather sternly - she has another issue with a mobile phone while driving last week as well !!!!!

Tell her to post in the Speeding and other Criminal Offences part of the forum for that one.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1443265 · Replies: 6 · Views: 53

cp8759
Posted on: Today, 16:21


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So here: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5584853,0...33;8i6656?hl=en

The problem you have is that you didn't park at a location where it would make sense to stop if a medical emergency had arisen. For example, if you'd parked here https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5587886,0...33;8i6656?hl=en and explained that you rushed into the cafe or the shop to grab a sugary drink or anything else you could get your hands on to deal with the situation, you'd have a credible story. But the whole diabetes thing doesn't quite tie in with "I parked the car on single yellow line with disabled badge not thinking anything of it but came back to a parking ticket".

I don't think you can credibly claim a medical emergency, the situation you describe amounts, at most, to mitigation. I would write to the council explaining the circumstances (dentists appointment, partner not feeling so good etc...) and asking them to exercise discretion in favour of a blue badge holder, but don't make up a cock and bull story about hypoglycemia.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1443260 · Replies: 12 · Views: 127

cp8759
Posted on: Today, 16:10


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PCN looks compliant, you could ask the council for the photos just in case the CEO messed up, otherwise pay the discount.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1443254 · Replies: 5 · Views: 73

cp8759
Posted on: Today, 16:00


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No sorry that's completely pants. Using Google maps is no defence, as for the Ordnance Survey, there is no requirement on the council to update them at all as far as I'm aware. It's far better not to mention such matters (But you can contact Ordnance Survey if you wish and they will update their mapping data). On top of that, whether the contravention was intentional or not is irrelevant. Send this instead, together with a copy of this image https://i.imgur.com/jbTuYhS.png
--------
Dear Sir or Madam,

I submit the following representations against PCN number XXXX

The alleged contravention did not occur, due to inadequate signage. I do not dispute that the signs employed by the council comply with The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016, but the signs nonetheless fail to adequately convey the restrictions.

On the day of the alleged contravention I was travelling along Whitworth Street and turned left onto Oxford Street, it is my contention that the signage, when approached from this direction of travel, is inadequate and fails to meet the requirements of regulation 18 of The Local Authorities' Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996 which provides, in so far as is relevant, that:

"Where an order relating to any road has been made, the order making authority shall take such steps as are necessary to secure—

(a) before the order comes into force, the placing on or near the road of such traffic signs in such positions as the order making authority may consider requisite for securing that adequate information as to the effect of the order is made available to persons using the road;
(b) the maintenance of such signs for so long as the order remains in force
"

While there are advance warning signs along Whitworth street, these signs do not convey the restrictions provided for the the Traffic Regulation Order, and in any event advance warning signs do not create any restriction as such, restrictions are only conveyed by regulatory signs placed at, or as close as possible to, the point where the restrictions commence. Further to this, at least one of the advanced warning signs was obscured by a parked lorry at the material time.

The regulatory signs installed by the council face traffic travelling along Oxford Street, and are not visible to traffic turning left onto Oxford Street from Whitworth Street until a motorist has already committed to the turn. The attached image illustrates the visibility of the regulatory signs for traffic travelling from Whitworth Street.

The regulatory signs on Oxford Street convey that a "no motor vehicles" restriction is in force from 6 am to 9 pm, except for buses, taxis and permit holders. There are no signs on Whitworth street that accurately convey this restriction and even if a motorist turning left were to see the signs on Oxford Street, it would by then be far too late to take an alternative route: reversing or performing a u-turn in the middle of a busy junction is not a real option and it may well open up the driver to prosecution from the police for driving without due care and attention.

For the contravention to occur, the motorist must have a lawful route open to him that allows him to avoid committing the contravention, at the point in time when he is given adequate notice of what the restrictions actually are. There is no burden on motorists to avoid taking a route on the off-chance that taking a particular route might be subject to certain unknown restrictions at some point further along the road. The situation might be different if the advance warning signs on Whitworth Street adequately conveyed the restrictions provided for in the Traffic Regulation Order, but that is not the case in this instance.

Furthermore, if the council contends that there is no requirement for the actual nature and timings of the restrictions to be properly conveyed to motorists travelling from Whitworth Street, this is tantamount to suggesting the contravention can be sustained on the basis of the advance warning signs alone, i.e. it would be a contravention to turn left from Whitworth Street and travel north along Oxford Street even if there were no regulatory signs at all on Oxford Street, clearly this cannot be right. But it also cannot be right for the contravention to be based on signage which a motorist wouldn't be able to see until he has already committed to turning left into Oxford Street.

One has to ask, if the restrictions are adequately conveyed, how would the driver of an exempt vehicle, such as a taxi driver who was delivering a customer to Manchester from a different city, know that the exemption applies and turning left onto Oxford Street is permitted? The simple answer is the driver would have no notice of the exemption, and he would have to either, out of an abundance of caution, drive straight ahead, or turn left and take the risk (at that point unknowable to him) that he might commit a contravention. This sort of ambiguity cannot have been what Parliament intended when it spoke of "securing that adequate information as to the effect of the order is made available to persons using the road".

Therefore because the signage does not adequately convey the nature and timing of the restrictions to motorists turning left from Whitworth Street, and because no regulatory signs are visible to motorists turning left from Whitworth Street until it it too late to take an alternative route, the penalty charge notice must be cancelled.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1443244 · Replies: 13 · Views: 93

cp8759
Posted on: Today, 15:45


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So when the Order for Recovery arrives you can make a statutory declaration to the effect that you made representations, but never received a reply.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1443229 · Replies: 8 · Views: 90

cp8759
Posted on: Today, 15:43


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Please upload a higher resolution copy of the PCN, especially the back. Also post a link to the location on Google Street View, and the council photos.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1443228 · Replies: 6 · Views: 12

cp8759
Posted on: Today, 15:41


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See the advice in post 2 above.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1443227 · Replies: 6 · Views: 56

cp8759
Posted on: Today, 15:40


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It's just a warning, tell her not to park there again.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1443226 · Replies: 6 · Views: 53

cp8759
Posted on: Today, 15:39


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I would say there's a legitimate expectation here. The CEO told you to display your application, that alone would not normally suffice but in your case you say were were able to park there for a month without receiving a PCN.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1443225 · Replies: 2 · Views: 29

cp8759
Posted on: Today, 15:36


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Show us the PCN, use imgbb.com or imgur.com to host the pictures.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1443223 · Replies: 4 · Views: 25

cp8759
Posted on: Today, 15:32


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Send it on 2nd January, then you can't really go wrong. Of course make sure you get proof of postage.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1443221 · Replies: 24 · Views: 156

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