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MS90
Red5
post Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 14:39
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Hello first post any help appreciated.

I received a NIP in July 2018 for exceeding a 50mph limit (speed 61) 13/07/18 the car is my wife’s but registered in my name no problem she admits the offence and attends a speed awareness course.
I also receive another NIP on 3/8/18 for exceeding 50mph limit (speed 61) 28/07/18 incidentally the same camera, again my wife’s car she was driving.The drivers decleration form filled in and returned after receiving the reminder. We then received the offence summary on 14/11/18.
My wife contacted the court reiterating she was the guilty party and whoever she spoke to assured her not to worry as you could make your plea in court.I assumed I would get a court summons in December.
Today 19/01/19 I have received a notice and collection order for £811.00 and my licence has been endorsed with 6 penalty points.
I have never in 33 years of driving been convicted of any offence and have no understanding of the court system. Please help my wife admits it was her driving and as I drive for a living there is a real possibility I could lose my job.

Thankyou in advance

Steve
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post Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 14:39
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Logician
post Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 15:38
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QUOTE
I also receive another NIP on 3/8/18 for exceeding 50mph limit (speed 61) 28/07/18 incidentally the same camera, again my wife’s car she was driving.The drivers decleration form filled in and returned after receiving the reminder. We then received the offence summary on 14/11/18.


You should have returned the form nominating your wife as the driver, and she should then have received a form addressed to her, on which she could declare she was the driver. It is not clear from what you said what exactly happened, so please explain further, bearing in mind that you and your wife are different people with different responsibilities over this matter.


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Red5
post Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 16:05
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Thankyou for the reply.
I did indeed send the form back identifying my wife as the driver after receiving the reminder as initially after receiving the NIP I thought it was a mix up with the previous offence until I noticed the different reference numbers.
When the offence summary letter arrived on the 14/11/18 I was away and left it to my wife to deal with as stated previously.
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cp8759
post Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 18:16
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What's an "offence summary letter"? And who was it addressed to?


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Jlc
post Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 21:03
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It's not 100% clear who received what and what responses were made.

But a MS90 endorsement is for failing to provide driver details.

Anyway, as it appears you were convicted without your knowledge then the only way forwards is to contact the court to perform a Statutory Declaration to remove the conviction.

However, the prosecution will recommence. It is for you to defend, regardless if your wife was driving.

It's hard to advise further without knowing what happened. But you didn't supply the details correctly (and signed) or some post was lost.

QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 18:16) *
What's an "offence summary letter"? And who was it addressed to?

I presume it was SJPN to the OP.


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RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Red5
post Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 21:54
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Thankyou for your responses, I really wish I could come across more coherently basically my wife has committed two speeding offences in quick succession (13 days apart) I am the registered keeper although it is my wife’s car therefor all charges have been addressed to me.
The first offence I informed the police my wife was driving and she subsequently did the speeding awareness course.
During the time between the first offence and the SAC the second NIP arrived again addressed to me, I wrongly assumed this was a clerical error on the Police part until the reminder arrived. I immediately filled in the form with my wife’s details and returned it.
The next letter that arrived was the Offence summary or possibly SJPN ? It also contained an MC100 form, this is when my wife contacted the court on my behalf and from the conversation she had was satisfied it would be a straight forward when it got to court.
I am going to make an appointment with the magistrate in the morning to perform a statutory declaration, I understand the prosecution will then recommence my question is what happens next do I need a solicitor?

This post has been edited by Red5: Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 21:58
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peterguk
post Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 21:58
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QUOTE (Red5 @ Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 21:54) *
The next letter that arrived was the Offence summary or possibly SJPN ? .


If you know you received a SJPN, then how can you file a SD?

You can not, under oath, declare you were unaware of the proceedings against you..

This post has been edited by peterguk: Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 22:24


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cp8759
post Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 22:20
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QUOTE (Red5 @ Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 21:54) *
...I understand the prosecution will then recommence my question is what happens next do I need a solicitor?

I doubt a solicitor would be much help. In the normal course of events, where the registered keeper is the driver, the registered keeper would approach the CPS prosecutor on the day and offer to plead guilty to speeding in exchange for the more serious s172 charge being dropped (the public interest lies in dealing with the underlying offence so this offer always seems to be accepted by prosecutors).

Your case is made slightly more complicated than usual because there's two parties involved (you and your wife), and from what you say you have no defence to the s172 charge. As you were not driving, you cannot plead guilty to the speeding charge (If you did, that could be perverting the course of justice). But if you wife isn't charged with anything, neither can she. I think you need to get in touch with the issuing police force, explain the circumstances and see if they're willing to issue proceedings against your wife, and arrange for them to be heard at the same time as the case against you. At least in principle, I can see now reason why the CPS shouldn't be willing to drop the s172 charge against you, if your wife is willing to plead guilty to the speeding offence.

But this is now extremely urgent, the limitation period expires on 28 January and if your wife hasn't been charged with speeding by then, it'll be too late. If prosecuting the original offence becomes impossible because the six month limit has expired, they will pursue you for the section 172 offence to which you will have no viable defence.

QUOTE (peterguk @ Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 21:58) *
QUOTE (Red5 @ Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 21:54) *
The next letter that arrived was the Offence summary or possibly SJPN ? .


If you know you received a SJPN, then how can you file a SD?

Good point, if nobody replied to the SJPN I don't see how a SD could be filed. You should have asked for the case to be dealt with at a full hearing but if you simply ignored it, it's too late now and my advice above does not apply.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Jlc
post Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 22:40
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Did you provide your wife's details correctly (and signed) upon receiving the reminder?

Did you take a copy / get any proof of posting?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Red5
post Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 00:12
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Yes I have a copy of the reminder I returned although I have no proof of postage.
Should I not have received a court summons as I was led to believe I could identify the driver at court proceedings.

This post has been edited by Red5: Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 00:31
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peterguk
post Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 00:24
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QUOTE (Red5 @ Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 00:12) *
Should I not have received a court summons.


You mention receiving a SJPN (the modern replacement for a summons)?


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peterguk
post Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 00:39
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QUOTE (Red5 @ Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 00:12) *
I was led to believe I could identify the driver at court proceedings.


Incorrect. Your time to identify the driver would have been up shortly after you received the reminder.


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The Rookie
post Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 07:56
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Do you have the ‘offence summary’ you mention, it sounds like that was the single justice procedure notice (aka summons) to which you could have plead guilty.

The original paperwork would have told you had 28 days to name the driver or you committed an offence, naming the driver after it’s too late to prosecute them clearly isn’t going to be permitted in the statute.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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Jlc
post Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 08:36
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QUOTE (Red5 @ Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 00:12) *
Yes I have a copy of the reminder I returned although I have no proof of postage.
Should I not have received a court summons as I was led to believe I could identify the driver at court proceedings.

I'm totally confused now.

Who received the SJPN? Was the nomination you returned signed? Who lead you to believe the driver could be identified at court?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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cp8759
post Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 20:12
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I suggest you upload redacted copies of the paperwork (remove name and address), and label them as "me" or "wife" so we know what's what. Otherwise we're just playing a pointless guessing game. Upload to http://imgur.com or similar if you run out of space on here.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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peterguk
post Tue, 22 Jan 2019 - 11:13
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OP. You last visited here last Sunday after all the posts above.

You may not like what has been posted, but just to make perfectly clear - if as you suggest, you received a SJPN in your own name, you CAN'T file a SD. You will be committing a crimimal offence by doing so.

This post has been edited by peterguk: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 - 11:14


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