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Court Appearence for excessive speeding, What evidence do they bring??
S2000P
post Wed, 10 Apr 2019 - 18:52
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Police doing their Job - I was speeding after being intimidated by a car full of Men slowing in front of me then accelerating when they moved to inside lane...3rd time I had enough....

Anyway …

saw the police and slowed as you do immediately...(we both did)...

Followed me for 4 to 5 miles then pulled me over.


So he was straight to business - showed me an ancient looking LCD screen on a speed detector that had my 'speed' displayed..

Surprised but took his word for it all, as he went about checks and paperwork - he seemed frazzled when I offered my licence up for viewing and started to question me about place of birth..


So as he fills out his paperwork, I guess his NPR was taking photos of cars approaching from behind as we were parked up in the layby, never once he showed my car or did the
LCD detector pick up any other speeds of passing cars..some quick ones too...

He only asked if I had an excuse...told him the reason not the excuse, at the start - to which he got a bit miffed...and wondered why I carried my licence!!


Anyway -

1) Will there be photo evidence the court will see / I should....got a photo 12 years ago of 35 in a 30...

Or is it 'this was his speed' to the court officials etc and that's it??


Single patrol man etc...


Not looking for any legal outs...just I (you) would always wonder if they have to have all evidence

This post has been edited by S2000P: Wed, 10 Apr 2019 - 18:55
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post Wed, 10 Apr 2019 - 18:52
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southpaw82
post Wed, 10 Apr 2019 - 19:13
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QUOTE (S2000P @ Wed, 10 Apr 2019 - 19:52) *
1) Will there be photo evidence the court will see / I should....


No.

QUOTE
Or is it 'this was his speed' to the court officials etc and that's it??


Yes.


QUOTE
I (you) would always wonder if they have to have all evidence

They do have to have “all evidence” - which means sufficient evidence so that the court can be sure of your guilt. I see no reason why the court could not convict you on the basis of the evidence of the officer and the device he used to measure your speed.


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Jlc
post Wed, 10 Apr 2019 - 19:23
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What's the alleged speed/limit?


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RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
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Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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The Rookie
post Wed, 10 Apr 2019 - 19:27
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Your interpretation of how the system works seems flawed, if it’s radar (not sure anyone uses that anymore) it can only be used stationary, there is no NPR (or even ANPR) system that measures speed in a car.


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S2000P
post Thu, 11 Apr 2019 - 17:22
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Wed, 10 Apr 2019 - 20:13) *
QUOTE (S2000P @ Wed, 10 Apr 2019 - 19:52) *
1) Will there be photo evidence the court will see / I should....


No.

QUOTE
Or is it 'this was his speed' to the court officials etc and that's it??


Yes.


QUOTE
I (you) would always wonder if they have to have all evidence

They do have to have “all evidence” - which means sufficient evidence so that the court can be sure of your guilt. I see no reason why the court could not convict you on the basis of the evidence of the officer and the device he used to measure your speed.

Ok, Thanks.

Appreciate the time you took.

P

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 10 Apr 2019 - 20:27) *
Your interpretation of how the system works seems flawed, if it’s radar (not sure anyone uses that anymore) it can only be used stationary, there is no NPR (or even ANPR) system that measures speed in a car.



He was stationary, I only mentioned the ANPR as a reference to photo evidence etc.

Thanks for time in replying

P

QUOTE (Jlc @ Wed, 10 Apr 2019 - 20:23) *
What's the alleged speed/limit?



Fast enough for a court appearance - slightly above the limit I have programmed in the car......
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NewJudge
post Thu, 11 Apr 2019 - 19:32
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QUOTE (S2000P @ Thu, 11 Apr 2019 - 18:22) *
Fast enough for a court appearance - slightly above the limit I have programmed in the car......

So more than 25mph over the limit then (unless the limit was under 40mph).
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S2000P
post Sun, 14 Apr 2019 - 14:41
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Yes
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NewJudge
post Sun, 14 Apr 2019 - 15:01
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Then you're in to a ban of up to 56 days or six points, then - provided you're convicted, of course..
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S2000P
post Mon, 15 Apr 2019 - 18:16
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QUOTE (NewJudge @ Sun, 14 Apr 2019 - 16:01) *
Then you're in to a ban of up to 56 days or six points, then - provided you're convicted, of course..

Yes aware of bans, points and fine potentials..

Speed limiter on the car must be way out as speed indicated on his device was 6mph above what I set...
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NewJudge
post Mon, 15 Apr 2019 - 19:17
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QUOTE (S2000P @ Mon, 15 Apr 2019 - 19:16) *
Speed limiter on the car must be way out as speed indicated on his device was 6mph above what I set...

So essentially you are considering casting doubt on the accuracy of the measuring equipment.

Bear in mind that the allegation is that you exceeded the speed limit, not that you travelled at nn mph. If you were travelling at more than 25mph above the limit you may struggle to convince the court that the measuring equipment was so unreliable that it could not measure your speed within 25mph of the limit.

If you plead Not Guilty on that basis I think you can look forward to an expensive day out.
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notmeatloaf
post Mon, 15 Apr 2019 - 20:27
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The equipment used - it sounds like it was Provida or similar - can be inaccurate, although it is meant to be used correctly.

It either works on a speed = distance /time basis, which relies on very accurate work with the stopwatch or by reading the speed of the patrol car, which only works if they maintain a set distance.

You can go to court and ask for a Newton hearing, which is where you plead guilty to speeding but dispute the speed. With something like Provida, rather than a laser gun, there is potentially more scope. However, obviously saying that it can't be right because you'd set your speed limiter below the alleged speed, but well above the posted limit, will go down like a lead balloon.


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S2000P
post Wed, 17 Apr 2019 - 18:35
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QUOTE (NewJudge @ Mon, 15 Apr 2019 - 20:17) *
QUOTE (S2000P @ Mon, 15 Apr 2019 - 19:16) *
Speed limiter on the car must be way out as speed indicated on his device was 6mph above what I set...

So essentially you are considering casting doubt on the accuracy of the measuring equipment.

Bear in mind that the allegation is that you exceeded the speed limit, not that you travelled at nn mph. If you were travelling at more than 25mph above the limit you may struggle to convince the court that the measuring equipment was so unreliable that it could not measure your speed within 25mph of the limit.

If you plead Not Guilty on that basis I think you can look forward to an expensive day out.



wise words, good advice.

Thanks


QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Mon, 15 Apr 2019 - 21:27) *
The equipment used - it sounds like it was Provida or similar - can be inaccurate, although it is meant to be used correctly.

It either works on a speed = distance /time basis, which relies on very accurate work with the stopwatch or by reading the speed of the patrol car, which only works if they maintain a set distance.

You can go to court and ask for a Newton hearing, which is where you plead guilty to speeding but dispute the speed. With something like Provida, rather than a laser gun, there is potentially more scope. However, obviously saying that it can't be right because you'd set your speed limiter below the alleged speed, but well above the posted limit, will go down like a lead balloon.


Again more wise words...thanks.

He was stationary half up a down slip road as I drove past it..
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S2000P
post Sat, 25 May 2019 - 10:44
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So originally cautioned 7th April.
Receive Single Justice Procedure Notice today 25th May - posting date 24th May.

Car owned and registered by me at the address I live at. Not a company vehicle etc.


What is the chatter about NIP 15 days etc... around?
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S2000P
post Sat, 25 May 2019 - 11:35
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Just want to know if and what I should add mitigation statements to Single Justice Procedure Notice I received.

Witness statement from the Police Officer that after I was cautioned I said 'I apologise that's all'

I had actually discussed the fact I was intimidated by 3 men in a Silver BMW 05 Reg...etc who were slowing in front of me, pulling over and accelerating as I tried to pass

- on the third occasion they did this I accelerated quickly at the point of being caught doing so (methinks they knew he was on the slip road)


So is it worth mentioning this, or just the fact a ban would mean not being able to look after my 92 old Nana 13 miles away
(that I had been out with that day and was travelling back from)

I go there 2 or 3 times a week, twice to see her during the week and on Sunday to take her out!

So points and a fine would hurt me greatly financially now and on insurance renewal for the next 4 years and be a long term reminder...
(I'll have to sell the car as insurance om group 46 car would go into well into 4 figures and buy a cheap low insurance group run-around)


Clean licence - 34 years of driving...

You wisdom would be greatly appreciated...

Thanks

P
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southpaw82
post Sat, 25 May 2019 - 11:45
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QUOTE (S2000P @ Sat, 25 May 2019 - 11:44) *
What is the chatter about NIP 15 days etc... around?

No idea. There is a 14 day time limit I’m aware of though. You were warned when you were stopped that you might be prosecuted so there was no need to serve an NIP on you.

PS: one case, one thread.

This post has been edited by southpaw82: Sat, 25 May 2019 - 11:46


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Logician
post Sat, 25 May 2019 - 12:46
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Mitigation can be a two-edged sword and it is easy to aggravate rather than mitigate, for instance the court may wonder what speed you would have got up to in order to avoid those harassing you if you had not passed the police car. If you do want to say something, bear that very much in mind, and say that you now realise that you did not take the best course of action. It is usually safer to say nothing.

Although exceptional hardship is strictly speaking relevant only in totting cases, by all means mention your Nana relying on you to persuade the court to points rather than disqualification, for which the single justice would send you to a full court for consideration if they think it should be considered. If you are on the cusp, your Nana might be enough to get them not to send you there.


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cp8759
post Sat, 25 May 2019 - 20:08
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QUOTE (S2000P @ Sat, 25 May 2019 - 12:35) *
I had actually discussed the fact I was intimidated by 3 men in a Silver BMW 05 Reg...etc who were slowing in front of me, pulling over and accelerating as I tried to pass

Intimidated is a big word. If these men had been making threatening gestures, trying to run into you, brandishing knives or other weapons, you'd likely have a defence of duress of circumstances. If (as is far, far more likely) the driver of the BMW was guilty of a bit of rubbish driving, you couldn't reasonably have been intimidated.


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S2000P
post Sat, 25 May 2019 - 20:50
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sat, 25 May 2019 - 12:45) *
QUOTE (S2000P @ Sat, 25 May 2019 - 11:44) *
What is the chatter about NIP 15 days etc... around?

No idea. There is a 14 day time limit I’m aware of though. You were warned when you were stopped that you might be prosecuted so there was no need to serve an NIP on you.

PS: one case, one thread.

Thanks for your reply

QUOTE (Logician @ Sat, 25 May 2019 - 13:46) *
Mitigation can be a two-edged sword and it is easy to aggravate rather than mitigate, for instance the court may wonder what speed you would have got up to in order to avoid those harassing you if you had not passed the police car. If you do want to say something, bear that very much in mind, and say that you now realise that you did not take the best course of action. It is usually safer to say nothing.

Although exceptional hardship is strictly speaking relevant only in totting cases, by all means mention your Nana relying on you to persuade the court to points rather than disqualification, for which the single justice would send you to a full court for consideration if they think it should be considered. If you are on the cusp, your Nana might be enough to get them not to send you there.


It is a concern to me, 7 days I'd probably manage lifts off friends...but anything more would be impossibly expensive...I'd rather she didn't know...it wouldn't be good for her health!


Thanks for taking the time to reply

This post has been edited by S2000P: Sat, 25 May 2019 - 20:51
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