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UK Parking Limited - County Court claim against me, Paid to park in Castle Car Park, Windsor. ticket fell of windscreen
marvalus
post Mon, 16 Apr 2018 - 19:02
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Hello all,
I have a bit of an Issue with a PCN and now have a Court claim against me,
I’m wondering if anyone is able to help as I have a limited amount of time to respond.

I parked in Castle Car Park, River street Windsor, Berkshire which is a Private Car park at the following time & date –
16:57 20/07/17
I purchased a parking ticket for 2 hours at a cost of £6.00,
this was valid until 18:57.
I stuck the parking ticket on the windscreen with some sticky tape I already had in the car and then left for a boat trip.

When I returned to the car shortly before the ticket was about to expire, I found a PCN on the windscreen, to my shock the ticket I had purchased had fallen off the windscreen and landed facedown on the dash board.
It was the middle of summer, so the heat from the sun probably caused the ticket to fall off.
Even though I had a PCN, I still purchased another ticket to cover me for another 2 hours.
Purchased tickets can be found here -
https://ibb.co/feULz7

Looking at the PCN placed on my screen, you can see that it does not have times for Observation from and to, only period of parking which was stated as [18:04]
The PCN was for £100.00 reduced to £60.00 if paid within 14 days.
PCN can be found here -
https://ibb.co/f63KsS

I went onto paymypcn.net website and could see plenty of photos had been taken of the car parked and the ticket I had paid for facedown on the dashboard.
What I observed straight away is that the serial number for the ticket I had paid for was clearly visible in the photos taken, the serial number is unique to each ticket, and is printed on the front and rear of the ticket, so if checked it would have been easily found that I had a valid ticket to park in the car park.
Photo of Ticket facedown with Serial number here -
https://ibb.co/dg5kz7
https://ibb.co/dNN4sS

I appealed on the paymypcn.net website,
unfortunately I don’t have a copy of my appeal, But I remember stating that I had purchased a ticket for the period parked, and that the ticket was valid and serial number for this could be seen in the photos taken, I also included a photo of the tickets I had purchased in my appeal.

PCN Parking solutions [for UK Parking Limited] responded to my appeal and rejected my appeal stating the following –
(Your vehicle was observed as being parked in a Pay and Display car park, without clearly displaying a valid Pay and Display ticket.
Please note that you can visit our website; www.paymypcn.net whereby you can review photographs of this parking event. You will note from these images that the Pay and Display ticket was upside down and was therefore not legible to the Parking Attendant.
Whilst we note the contents of your appeal, these amount to mitigation and are not sufficient to discharge your liability. The onus is on the motorist to ensure that a valid Pay and Display ticket is on display at all times.
Whilst you may have been a genuine ticket holder, by failing to ensure that the Pay and Display ticket was correctly on display, you have breached the terms and conditions of parking.)
Something I now need to make you all aware of –
1. I am not the registered keeper of the car I was driving, I had borrowed it
2. They had my First name and Surname the wrong way round.
3. The address was incorrect, (it had no flat number) but I found the letter a few weeks later as it was found by a neighbor, So I did not get the letter until over 6 weeks later.
I ignored the letter as I thought it might just go away, and they had incorrect details for me anyway, and there was no way I was paying £100.00 when I had a valid parking ticket.
Appeal letter response can be found here –
https://ibb.co/eOnXe7 Page 1
https://ibb.co/iwXXe7 Page 2
At the end of December 2017 I was given a letter from a Neighbour from CSB Solicitors, they now wanted £202.25 from me.
again they had the following details incorrect.
1. They had my First name and Surname the wrong way round.
2. The address was incorrect, (it had no flat number) which is why I received the letter several weeks later.
I continued to receive quite a few letters harassing me to pay the amount owed, all delayed due to incorrect address, I ignored them all and hoped they would give up.
First Solicitor letter found here (I have many more) -
https://ibb.co/eJyimn Page 1
https://ibb.co/jjY5z7 Page 2
This month, April 2018 I receive a County court claim form, again with the above incorrect details demanding I now pay £242.98

County Court claim form found here -
https://ibb.co/ebKdK7 Page 1
https://ibb.co/kRepRn Page 2
https://ibb.co/fhWKRn Page 3
I seriously now need help with this now, I refuse to pay the amount when I had a valid ticket, question is how do I respond to this?
I never informed them that I was the driver of the Vehicle, also they have suffered no losses as I had spent a total of £12.00 on parking tickets, this is why I feel strongly that I should not pay anything, but now it has been taken to a county court.
Do I admit part of the claim? Or do I counterclaim and let the court know about the harassment?
Do I ask for it to be taken to Court and then let the Judge decide?
Also does the incorrect name and address that the Court has make any difference to the case?
Many thanks to you all for your time reading this.
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post Mon, 16 Apr 2018 - 19:02
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emanresu
post Mon, 16 Apr 2018 - 19:28
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With this one, it will be the pic of the signs that will win it for you. Have you got a pic of the wording? AFAIK it is badly worded so an easy send off.

They used to use Gladstones who made so many errors they've switched. Can't see CBS being any better.

An old pic which says display a valid ticket. It was valid so there is no breach .....



This post has been edited by emanresu: Mon, 16 Apr 2018 - 19:30


--------------------
Where there is a claim - there is a counterclaim.
Are Parking companies misusing your personal data or interfering with your lease? Counterclaims are only £25. Makes them sit up and take notice. For leaseholds, join in the Managing agents too. Since the purpose of these claims is to frighten you, give them something to be frightened of.
Subject Access Requests to the DVLA?Find out who accessed your data and when. Try SubjectAccess.Requests@dvla.gsi.gov.uk. [Apologies if it does not work]
Double Dip / ANPR FaultsThe BPA Report on ANPR Double Dips is here. Ideal case for a counterclaim (see above).
Daily Court List. See who is doing what and where here
Printing and posting Witness Statements. Easy and cheap way DoxDirect
What is court like. A District Judge's view
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marvalus
post Mon, 16 Apr 2018 - 19:36
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a

This post has been edited by marvalus: Mon, 16 Apr 2018 - 21:07
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kommando
post Mon, 16 Apr 2018 - 19:57
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Define ' Display ticket clearly in vehicle '' does it mean 'display ticket so it can be read' or Display a ticket so it's clearly a ticket even if it's upside down', how do you know.

This post has been edited by kommando: Mon, 16 Apr 2018 - 19:58
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marvalus
post Mon, 16 Apr 2018 - 20:11
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Attached Image
Partial picture of Sign in Castle Carpark River street
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Jlc
post Mon, 16 Apr 2018 - 20:32
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I'll play devil's advocate. The ticket (although not the contract) does say 'display clearly on dashboard'. It wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that the details need to be visible to confirm whether it's valid...

Right, I wouldn't pay - defend all the way (no part admittance). There are a number of defence considerations:

You mention no loss but a 'lazy' judge may simply be swayed by ParkingEye v Beavis and that the amount is necessary to discourage those who are not paying. Here you should argue that the parking fee (and some) was paid and can be clearly evidenced. It should be argued that there is an imbalance here:
QUOTE
What the Appeal Court said in ParkingEye v Beavis :
When the court is considering an ordinary financial or commercial contract, then it is understandable that the law, which lays down its own rules as to the compensation due from a contract breaker to the innocent party, should prohibit terms which require the payment of compensation going far beyond that which the law allows in the absence of any contract provision governing this outcome.

The classic and simple case is that referred to by Tindal CJ in Kemble v Farren (1829) 6 Bing. 141 at 148: “But that a very large sum should become immediately payable, in consequence of the non-payment of a very small sum, and that the former should not be considered a penalty, appears to be a contradiction in terms, the case being precisely that in which courts of equity have always relieved, and against which courts of law have, in modern times, endeavoured to relieve, by directing juries to assess the real damages sustained by the breach of the agreement.”


Indeed, you did comply with the contract (although not the ticket, i.e. dashboard) by displaying the valid ticket. It seems the contract was frustrated by something outside your control. (You actually put extra effort in securing the ticket)

Their inability to process your personal data is worth an attack - presuming you entered it correctly.

I doubt any counterclaim applies here unless you could show a breach of data protection (currently DPA, heading towards GDPR). The 'harassment' is fairly normal for PPC's but any untruths should be picked on, if any.

Was a compliant (debt protocol) Letter Before Claim sent? It's not a defence but may assist in costs.

Do the signs make allowance to these mystical extra charges?

This post has been edited by Jlc: Mon, 16 Apr 2018 - 20:33


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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marvalus
post Mon, 16 Apr 2018 - 21:42
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thank you for your reply Jic,
No Debt Protocol letter was sent, Just the letters I have mentioned.
I dont have any photos of the signs, Only a partial picture I have included.
I have searched the net and this forum for photos of the signs, it appears lots of people have had problems in this car park.
I found a topc here which might help me

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=106567
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 06:51
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Have you ACKNOWLEDGED the claim yet?

If not, do so now, online. With an issue date of 12/04.2018 you have 33 days to ensure the court receives your defence ONCE you ack.

One major argument will be de minimis - that the contract breach was so minor a court should not bother with it. it is a trifle. Especially when they could have confirmed there was a valid ticket themselves, and DOUBLY so when they could have done so after the fact. If they were honest, then they would have cancelled at either opportunity.

WHEN you ack, DO NOT START THE DEFENCE. You leave it entiurely totally and COMPLETELY blank, null, void of all content. This is CRITICAL. You will then compile your defence on some form of office softwaer, inssert a scan of your signature, convert it to PDF and EMAIL it to the courts email address

This post has been edited by nosferatu1001: Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 06:52
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The Rookie
post Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 08:30
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QUOTE (marvalus @ Mon, 16 Apr 2018 - 22:42) *
No Debt Protocol letter was sent,

The phrase is 'letter before action' (or occasionally 'letter before councty court claim', its 'required' by the 'pre-action protocols', make sure you have the phraseology correct as a Judge may not connect your words with what they should have been.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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marvalus
post Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 23:13
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 07:51) *
Have you ACKNOWLEDGED the claim yet?

If not, do so now, online. With an issue date of 12/04.2018 you have 33 days to ensure the court receives your defence ONCE you ack.

One major argument will be de minimis - that the contract breach was so minor a court should not bother with it. it is a trifle. Especially when they could have confirmed there was a valid ticket themselves, and DOUBLY so when they could have done so after the fact. If they were honest, then they would have cancelled at either opportunity.

WHEN you ack, DO NOT START THE DEFENCE. You leave it entiurely totally and COMPLETELY blank, null, void of all content. This is CRITICAL. You will then compile your defence on some form of office softwaer, inssert a scan of your signature, convert it to PDF and EMAIL it to the courts email address

---------------
Thank you for your help, I have never done this before so I wanted to just check with you.
Here is the form I have which i think your talking about
https://ibb.co/fhWKRn

So I Sign this form, anything else on the form?
date?
Defendant full name?
Address?
D.O.B?
defend or contest?

I know your saying to leave blank,
Just checking why and how it will help?

and how best to compile my defence and how should I submit it?
On paper, Email or do I intend to sit before a Judge?

many thanks
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ostell
post Wed, 18 Apr 2018 - 06:50
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The claim form should have a web address and a password. Use those details to go online and simply acknowledge the claim. No need to send in paper. You are defending in full, you will not be putting anything in the defence. Acknowledging give you 33 days from date of issue to get your defence in to the court, with a little help from the forum.
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Redivi
post Wed, 18 Apr 2018 - 07:25
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Date?
Defendant full name?
Address?
D.O.B?

This is information to identify you and must be provided

Defend or contest?
You dispute all of the debt
You do not dispute jurisdiction (unless you live in Scotland or Northern Ireland)
The case will be moved to your local court later

I know your saying to leave blank,
Just checking why and how it will help?

If you enter anything in the the Defence box now, the system will treat it as your defence
You won't be able to submit your actual defence later

and how best to compile my defence and how should I submit it?
On paper, Email or do I intend to sit before a Judge?

As a pdf attachment to an email but make sure it's signed
The case only ends up in front of a judge if UK Parking doesn't back down but pays the Hearing Fee in about three months time
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marvalus
post Fri, 20 Apr 2018 - 10:40
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Thank you for your help everyone, I just wanted to let you know I have know Acknowledged the claim form online,
I ticked the box titled 'I intend to defend all of this claim'
I will now need to get my defence together.
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