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Court Summons for 3 offences
mrmk
post Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 23:22
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Hi, I've sent sent a summons by Kent Police to attend court on the 16th of April for the following:

-Careless driving
-Failure to stop
-Failure to report


I was doing a 3 point turn on the 17th of August 2017 and I accidentaly bumped a parked car but didn't get out to check the other car because I didn't think significant damage was done. Anyways, interviewed on 3rd of December 2017 by police and a statement wasn't provided until the 13th of March 2018. In regards to the witness statement, it is dated as " 24th JULY 2017" which is a month before the incident happened. The witness does have CCTV footage of the incident and I admitted to bumping the car in the cautionary interview after being told this. I intend on pleading guilty; however, I don't want to lose my licence via totting up as I've only had it for a year now and am only 18. My question is what do you think will happen and does the incorrect date of the witness statement affect its admissibility? Also, how do I know when the papers were lodged with court? The Kent Police documents were printed on the 14th of February (just under 6 months) but the prosecutor's proof by written statement document is dated as the 5th of April 2018, which is more than 6 months after the incident.


Lastly, I have been asked to pay a £85 fine and to show income but I am a full-time student with no income and living with my parents so how would this work? Am I also eligible for free legal representation/help?
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post Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 23:22
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mrmk
post Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 22:23
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 22:26) *
And was the requisition issued at the same time as the written charge?


same date and they both came in the same envelope that was sent out on the 5th of april

QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 22:52) *
QUOTE (mrmk @ Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 21:36) *
...requisition wasn't sent to me till after 6 months, so the copies to the court cant've either

Why not? how do you know the police didn't send the documents to the court immediately, but only sent them to you after the six months had expired?


because key word 'copy'


i'm asking the court via phone on monday anyways but want to prepare myself as much as possible beforehand
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peterguk
post Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 22:26
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QUOTE (mrmk @ Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 23:23) *
because key word 'copy'


Not sure how that answers cpl's question, but doesn't really matter since it's what the court says that counts in terms of this discussion.


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nosferatu1001
post Sun, 8 Apr 2018 - 00:44
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I can copy a doc, send the copy to one place, and months later send the original to a second place.
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mrmk
post Mon, 9 Apr 2018 - 13:27
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Spoke with the court and they said they received it on the 14th of February which is just within the 6 month period. Are we absolutely certain that it's only the court that it has to be issued to within a 6 month period with a postal requisition?
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The Rookie
post Mon, 9 Apr 2018 - 13:48
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The requirement is 'issue' (produce) not 'issued to' (effectively 2 days before service), so it would appear to be in time as the court couldn't have received something issued outside of 6 months within 6 months!


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NewJudge
post Mon, 9 Apr 2018 - 13:51
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QUOTE (mrmk @ Mon, 9 Apr 2018 - 14:27) *
Spoke with the court and they said they received it on the 14th of February which is just within the 6 month period. Are we absolutely certain that it's only the court that it has to be issued to within a 6 month period with a postal requisition?


According to a discussion going on within this thread:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=119669

It doesn't seem to matter when the court receives it. It when it is "issued" that matters. Whether "issued" is accepted as "served upon" or "delivered to" seems to be anybody's guess. So I think I'll keep out of this cool.gif

This post has been edited by NewJudge: Mon, 9 Apr 2018 - 13:52
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mrmk
post Mon, 9 Apr 2018 - 17:27
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I will continue to check the legalities of this but as I have a chance of losing my licence if I plead guilty, can I argue for a case of exceptional hardship? I'm a full-time student at the moment set to sit my A-Level exams from May and I use my car to travel to school and back + to a place of study e.g. library

Also set to go to uni in September which is 150+ miles away etc so could I argue I need to drive?
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NewJudge
post Mon, 9 Apr 2018 - 17:43
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If all these allegations arose from the same incident you will only receive points for the most serious. Failure to stop/report carries a maximum of ten points whilst careless driving carries a maximum of nine. The court can disqualify you (instead of imposing points). However, from your description it seems unlikely that will happen. However, if you are disqualified for the offences you cannot argue "Exceptional Hardship". That is only available for "totting up" bans.

Since it is less than two years since you passed your first driving test six points will see your licence revoked. This is not the same as being disqualified. You can immediately apply for a new provisional licence but will have to pass your test (both parts) again. The court has no discretion over this. It is an administrative exercise carried out by the DVLA when they get news of your six points.

This post has been edited by NewJudge: Mon, 9 Apr 2018 - 18:23
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mrmk
post Tue, 10 Apr 2018 - 18:00
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as stated before the witness statement is dated 24th July 2017 when the incident took place on the 17th August 2017 - can I get the statement thrown out?
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The Rookie
post Tue, 10 Apr 2018 - 18:02
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Well you can contest it, and the officer will turn up and explain an error, the court will accept it and you’ll be no better off. It’s not like dodgy TV shows in that respect.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

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mrmk
post Tue, 10 Apr 2018 - 22:30
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 10 Apr 2018 - 19:02) *
Well you can contest it, and the officer will turn up and explain an error, the court will accept it and you’ll be no better off. It’s not like dodgy TV shows in that respect.


I thought the slip rule only applied to court documents rather than the statement from the owner of the car i hit (not even the police), thus making it inadmissible?
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southpaw82
post Tue, 10 Apr 2018 - 22:37
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QUOTE (mrmk @ Tue, 10 Apr 2018 - 23:30) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 10 Apr 2018 - 19:02) *
Well you can contest it, and the officer will turn up and explain an error, the court will accept it and you’ll be no better off. It’s not like dodgy TV shows in that respect.


I thought the slip rule only applied to court documents rather than the statement from the owner of the car i hit (not even the police), thus making it inadmissible?

It’s got nothing to do with the slip rule. The statement is not inadmissible, unless you object to it in accordance with s 9 of the Criminal Justice Act 1967. The difficulty you will face is that if you try to exploit the error then (1) if the witness is there their statement will be largely irrelevant, (2) if they’re not there and you ambush the prosecution they will ask for an adjournment to call the witness, and probably apply for a costs order against you.


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mrmk
post Sat, 14 Apr 2018 - 02:33
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In my mitigation, is it a valid defence to say that I was unaware of any damage caused and therefore didn't know I had to stop/report the accident? I did mention this in my police interview and I believe you don't have to report an accident if no damage was caused
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The Rookie
post Sat, 14 Apr 2018 - 05:01
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QUOTE (mrmk @ Sat, 14 Apr 2018 - 03:33) *
In my mitigation, is it a valid defence to say that I was unaware of any damage caused and therefore didn't know I had to stop/report the accident?

As a defence, no and no. (and you should understand that a defence and mitigation are totally different, a defence means you are saying you are not guilty, mitigation is accepting guilt but with circumstances that could reduce the seriousness of your crime and should be considered in sentencing).

If you were aware of an impact (and you say you were), then not checking for damage so that you were unaware of damage is not a defence, had you had a reasonably held belief there was no damage then it could be a defence, but realistically by driving off without checking, any belief there wasn't damage couldn't be 'reasonably held' in my opinion.

Ignorance of the law is never a defence, and will be considered even less as mitigation where its clearly not the 'morally right' thing to do (to clear off having driven into someone's car without even checking for damage).

In common parlance, you did a 'hit and run' and 'scarpered'/'did a runner' after the incident.

Your best course in my opinion is mitigation, to play on your youth and immaturity, that you panicked, recognise now that what you did was stupid and fall on your sword, no attempt to make excuses AT ALL, genuine remorse is likely to be received better than any 'excuses' in my opinion.

The success of any mitigation will depend very much on the damage caused to both the other car and yours (which you would later have been aware of I suspect), if it's a minor ding (and no damage to yours) it's likely to be better received than if you had obviously hit it quite hard with substantial damage and also obvious damage to yours when you then didn't 'go back to the scene of the crime' and do the right thing.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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mrmk
post Sat, 14 Apr 2018 - 19:11
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sat, 14 Apr 2018 - 06:01) *
QUOTE (mrmk @ Sat, 14 Apr 2018 - 03:33) *
In my mitigation, is it a valid defence to say that I was unaware of any damage caused and therefore didn't know I had to stop/report the accident?

As a defence, no and no. (and you should understand that a defence and mitigation are totally different, a defence means you are saying you are not guilty, mitigation is accepting guilt but with circumstances that could reduce the seriousness of your crime and should be considered in sentencing).

If you were aware of an impact (and you say you were), then not checking for damage so that you were unaware of damage is not a defence, had you had a reasonably held belief there was no damage then it could be a defence, but realistically by driving off without checking, any belief there wasn't damage couldn't be 'reasonably held' in my opinion.

Ignorance of the law is never a defence, and will be considered even less as mitigation where its clearly not the 'morally right' thing to do (to clear off having driven into someone's car without even checking for damage).

In common parlance, you did a 'hit and run' and 'scarpered'/'did a runner' after the incident.

Your best course in my opinion is mitigation, to play on your youth and immaturity, that you panicked, recognise now that what you did was stupid and fall on your sword, no attempt to make excuses AT ALL, genuine remorse is likely to be received better than any 'excuses' in my opinion.

The success of any mitigation will depend very much on the damage caused to both the other car and yours (which you would later have been aware of I suspect), if it's a minor ding (and no damage to yours) it's likely to be better received than if you had obviously hit it quite hard with substantial damage and also obvious damage to yours when you then didn't 'go back to the scene of the crime' and do the right thing.



well i turned around in the driver seat to check but didn't see anything and when i saw my own car later, there was nothing too so that's why i assumed no damage was done - can't i say that or should i just say i panicked and was in a rush to sixth form
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mrmk
post Sat, 14 Apr 2018 - 19:47
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for an incident such as this, if i were to hire a lawyer, how would the lawyer defend me? what sort of things would they raise to make the incident seem less severe and lower the punishment (just wondering because i was quoted at £1250)
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southpaw82
post Sat, 14 Apr 2018 - 21:26
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QUOTE (mrmk @ Sat, 14 Apr 2018 - 20:47) *
for an incident such as this, if i were to hire a lawyer, how would the lawyer defend me? what sort of things would they raise to make the incident seem less severe and lower the punishment (just wondering because i was quoted at £1250)

They wouldn’t defend you, they would mitigate. There’s not an a lot to say - you hit a car, couldn’t be bothered to get out and check, glanced over your shoulder and drove off. You’re probably better off saving the £1,250 (including or excluding VAT?) for the fine.


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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The Rookie
post Sat, 14 Apr 2018 - 23:44
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Nothing you’ve said suggests a defence, so I can’t suggest any way a lawyer will defend you.

They could present the mitigation but I can’t see that being worth £1250!


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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mrmk
post Sun, 15 Apr 2018 - 18:19
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So I should say something like this?


I have held a full licence since February 2017 and to date, this is clean. Additionally, I do not currently hold any criminal convictions and have never been involved with the police prior to this incident. Currently, I am a full-time student at Sixth Form and will be attending university in Nottingham in September 2018. Driving plays a crucial role in my educational life as it allows me to travel between home and a place of study. On the 17th of August 2017, I was in a rush to collect my AS results. I was completing a 3 point turn during which I accidentally bumped into a parked car. As I was in a rush and panicking, I didn't think to get out and check the affected car and instead proceeded to complete the turn. I now understand that this was an error in judgement as it was my duty to stop and report the accident with the owner of the other vehicle. When I checked my own vehicle, there was no damage done and no one was hurt in the incident. When I was informed of the damage caused to the other vehicle, I proceeded to inform my insurer about the incident and a claim was taken out by the other party to repair the damage.
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mrmk
post Mon, 16 Apr 2018 - 01:24
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Hearing at 10am, will inform you all about the outcome
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