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Ecko
post Fri, 2 Mar 2018 - 08:58
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Hi all,

Hope you're well. My wife and I have both received parking tickets on the estate that we live in. We were parking in what is effectively the visitor bays. She has a permit but forgot to display it, I have a permit on my car but currently driving a courtesy car (from a hire company which is a standard hire with costs recovered from third party insurance) as my vehicle was in the garage for repair.

Below are the signs and tickets, do I stand a chance of appealing these tickets? If so should I appeal directly to PESS? Do we have any right of appeal on the basis that we are residents of the estate?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.







This post has been edited by Ecko: Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 18:07
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post Fri, 2 Mar 2018 - 08:58
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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 7 Mar 2018 - 09:17
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No, you appeal early. NOT on extentuating circumstances, JUST use the template from MSE forum, newbies thread. One size fits all. do this on day 25/26. that wqay they will likely forget to send a Notice to Keeper meaning the keeper is not liable

Meaning you REALLY need to go back through your thread and STOP referring to the driver - they are only ever called "the ddriver", the KEEPEr of the vehicle is a different legal concept.
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Ecko
post Wed, 7 Mar 2018 - 10:27
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Hi guys,

I have written the appeals, first one is for my wife and the second is for myself. I understand that the chances of this appeal being successful are slim to none, I would be grateful if someone could point me in the direction of how to write the appeal.

Edited to remove draft appeals.

This post has been edited by Ecko: Wed, 7 Mar 2018 - 14:12
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kommando
post Wed, 7 Mar 2018 - 10:37
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Take those appeals down, they will lose this for you when you can easily win.

From post #21

Meaning you REALLY need to go back through your thread and STOP referring to the driver - they are only ever called "the driver", the Keeper of the vehicle is a different legal concept.

You are appealing as the keeper and you do not identify the driver, they will then probably not access the DVLA and issue a NTK which then means they cannot hold the keeper liable only the driver, as they do not know the drivers identity (unless you tell them) it can go nowhere as it a win at POPLA.
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Dwaynedouglas
post Wed, 7 Mar 2018 - 11:57
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Wed, 7 Mar 2018 - 09:17) *
No, you appeal early. NOT on extentuating circumstances, JUST use the template from MSE forum, newbies thread. One size fits all. do this on day 25/26.


ICYMI

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4816822

Your appeals look different to the one on there.


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I'm not a lawyer or legally trained, my opinion is based on my experience - follow at your own risk.
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The Rookie
post Wed, 7 Mar 2018 - 13:03
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Determined to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.....


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

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Ecko
post Sun, 15 Apr 2018 - 15:55
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Hi all,

Bit of an update. The ticket on my car (the hire car) was cancelled upon appeal (thank you all for the advice). Regarding the ticket on my wife's car, they replied to the email requesting the details of the driver to look into the appeal further. They have also sent the NTK to her.

How should I proceed from this point? Should I reply to the email? What should I do about the NTK's?
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nosferatu1001
post Sun, 15 Apr 2018 - 16:51
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NtK singular or plural?



Wait until you get an appeal rejection. What else do you think you can do, other than pay which obviously we do no suggest?
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ostell
post Sun, 15 Apr 2018 - 16:57
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So the appeal was after the windscreen ticket and they have then issued the NTK after receiving the appeal form the keeper? Usually when they are asking for driver details they are unsure of winning. In the appeal did the driver identify themself as the keeper and give name and address? What's the timing on the NTK, how many days after the alleged incident?

It may be advantageous to check with the DVLA who requested the keepers details. Dates from the parking till the receipt of the NTK.
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Ecko
post Sun, 15 Apr 2018 - 17:23
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The ticket was issued 25/02/18, the NTK date is 09/04/18. The appeal was sent in 08/03/18.

The appeal was done via email, the driver was not identified and was done as the keeper. The reply simply stated that they would like to know the driver's name and address to respond to the appeal.

I have not yet replied to their emails. Should I reply requesting a response to the appeal?
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ostell
post Sun, 15 Apr 2018 - 17:45
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Was the KEEPER identified in the appeal to the windscreen ticket and a NTK was received after the appeal? What I'm trying to get at is if PESS had the keepers name and address from the appeal did they actually bother to go to the DVLA to get the keeper details? If they did not then this is a POFA fail and the keeper cannot be held liable. You will need to contact the DVLA and ask
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Ecko
post Sun, 15 Apr 2018 - 19:00
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Hi Ostell,

According to the NTK they have obtained the details from the DVLA. How can I contact the DVLA regarding whether the information was requested by PESS?

In the meantime, should I press them for a response to the appeal?
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ostell
post Sun, 15 Apr 2018 - 21:21
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They know they are sipposed to get the details from the DVLA but they sometimes try to save £2.50.

There is an email address for the DVLA for these sort of questions. I can't remember it off hand, it's free.
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The Rookie
post Mon, 16 Apr 2018 - 04:51
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If the keeper is appealing why would you want to identify the driver? Either ignore or politely decline.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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Ecko
post Mon, 16 Apr 2018 - 09:26
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It's because the sign specifically states that their contract is with the driver. They contact keeper as the keeper becomes liable if the driver does not pay.
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ManxRed
post Mon, 16 Apr 2018 - 09:34
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QUOTE (Ecko @ Mon, 16 Apr 2018 - 10:26) *
It's because the sign specifically states that their contract is with the driver. They contact keeper as the keeper becomes liable if the driver does not pay.


ONLY if they follow certain criteria, which - as has been explained on here - they don't always do. One of those criteria is that they must obtain the Keeper details from the DVLA, so if they didn't then they cannot hold the Keeper liable.

If, assuming they fail on any one of the criteria for holding the keeper liable, they don't know the name of the driver, then they are stuffed.


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kommando
post Mon, 16 Apr 2018 - 09:43
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QUOTE
They contact keeper as the keeper becomes liable if the driver does not pay.


The keeper only becomes liable if they meet the requirements of POFA 2012, have you checked the NTK against the POFA requirements and have you had it confirmed they got the keepers details from the DVLA and not just used the details from the appeal. They have to have paid the £2.50 to the DVLA for the keepers details, if they got them any other way only the driver is liable regardless of what the signs say.
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Ecko
post Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 09:43
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What's the best way to contact the DVLA to check?

Also quick question, how long should they have replied to the original appeal in?
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 09:45
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By finding the DVLA email on here, do a search

They have 35 days to reposnd or the BPA Code of Pracxice deems it to be accepted.
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Ecko
post Thu, 19 Apr 2018 - 13:21
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Amazing news!

Both PCN's have been cancelled. I replied to the email where they requested the info requesting that they respond to the appeal as is and they responded by cancelling the PCN.

My sincerest thanks to all of you who responded and helped me with this.
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makara
post Thu, 19 Apr 2018 - 13:29
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Well done to both of you!
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