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Havering No Right Turn
rsg444
post Fri, 19 Jan 2018 - 14:59
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Hi all, my brother received a PCN through the post for an alleged contravention of ignoring a no right turn sign. The no right turn is apparently at Tangent Link for customers coming out of B&Q in Harold Hill. He did not notice any signs but on revisiting he now noticed that there is one there. Are there any grounds to challenge this as a simple mistake on what looks like a private road shouldn't really result in a £65 fine in my opinion.

Front page of PCN through post shown below:

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post Fri, 19 Jan 2018 - 14:59
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PASTMYBEST
post Sun, 21 Jan 2018 - 21:12
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Sun, 21 Jan 2018 - 21:05) *
Clue -"parking"


bus stops or schools via CCTV under TMA 2004
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Neil B
post Sun, 21 Jan 2018 - 21:32
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Sun, 21 Jan 2018 - 21:12) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Sun, 21 Jan 2018 - 21:05) *
Clue -"parking"


bus stops or schools via CCTV under TMA 2004

Wasn't talking to you tongue3.gif Plonker rolleyes.gif

Rather, reassuring rsg.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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rsg444
post Mon, 22 Jan 2018 - 14:21
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Ok thanks all, I've contacted Havering for a TMO and the directed me to the following page: http://www.haveringtraffweb.co.uk//

I typed in Tangent Link and all I see under documents is a Map with a No Right Turn symbol on there.
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rsg444
post Thu, 25 Jan 2018 - 00:03
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Went back to see signage. This is what they have right now:



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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 25 Jan 2018 - 09:06
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Did this for the same place yesterday if it helps


dear Mr Parking

Representations against PCN number XXXXXXX
vehicle registration mark AB 12 CDE

Your name and address

I make these representations under the statutory ground That the penalty charge exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case.

The London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003 at 4(8)(a)(iii) states. 2That the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice"

The PCN fails here. It states " 28 days beginning with the date on which this PCN is served. This is in the normal course of post, two working days later. this would create an obvious prejudice, and fail to comply with the regulations.

The PCN fails similarly at 4(8)(a)(iv) using the same date of service rather than date of notice. It further fails in stating the discount is available for 21 days rather than the mandated 14 days.

The PCN fails to comply with the regulations, it is thus not a valid document and no penalty may be demanded on the back of it. Therefore the penalty demanded exceeds the relevant amount in the circumstances of the case, as the only amount that can be due on the strength of this PCN is NIL

I look forward to confirmation of cancellation at your soonest convenience
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Neil B
post Thu, 25 Jan 2018 - 11:41
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Thu, 25 Jan 2018 - 09:06) *
it is thus not a valid document and no penalty may be demanded on the back of it.

I can just see the rejection now, from some HBC muppet.

'If you look, we actually demanded the penalty on the front'.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 25 Jan 2018 - 11:51
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Thu, 25 Jan 2018 - 11:41) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Thu, 25 Jan 2018 - 09:06) *
it is thus not a valid document and no penalty may be demanded on the back of it.

I can just see the rejection now, from some HBC muppet.

'If you look, we actually demanded the penalty on the front'.



Wot you smokin biggrin.gif
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rsg444
post Thu, 25 Jan 2018 - 13:06
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Thanks very much!
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rsg444
post Wed, 14 Mar 2018 - 16:19
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Dear All,

Havering sent a reply - a notice of rejection. I've only just found out from my brother that it was received. We have 2 days to pay at discounted rate.

It appears they've not taken any points into consideration. Is this worth a tribunal or just shut up and pay up? Help much appreciated as always.




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Neil B
post Wed, 14 Mar 2018 - 16:21
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QUOTE (rsg444 @ Wed, 14 Mar 2018 - 16:19) *
We have 2 days to pay at discounted rate.

You've obscured the date!



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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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cp8759
post Wed, 14 Mar 2018 - 16:22
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100% appeal, failing to consider the points raised will win on its own. Add the fact that the PCN wasn't compliant and you're almost certain to win at the tribunal.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 14 Mar 2018 - 16:25
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 14 Mar 2018 - 16:22) *
100% appeal, failing to consider the points raised will win on its own. Add the fact that the PCN wasn't compliant and you're almost certain to win at the tribunal.



NoR is bobbins as well
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Neil B
post Wed, 14 Mar 2018 - 16:27
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rejection has the usual errors too


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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rsg444
post Wed, 14 Mar 2018 - 16:42
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Wed, 14 Mar 2018 - 16:21) *
QUOTE (rsg444 @ Wed, 14 Mar 2018 - 16:19) *
We have 2 days to pay at discounted rate.

You've obscured the date!


Date on letter is 23rd Feb 2018

Ok, so the recommendation is to appeal to tribunals using grounds that PCN was non compliant and the authority failed to consider the point raised in the Representation?
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cp8759
post Wed, 14 Mar 2018 - 16:49
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QUOTE (rsg444 @ Wed, 14 Mar 2018 - 16:42) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Wed, 14 Mar 2018 - 16:21) *
QUOTE (rsg444 @ Wed, 14 Mar 2018 - 16:19) *
We have 2 days to pay at discounted rate.

You've obscured the date!


Date on letter is 23rd Feb 2018

Ok, so the recommendation is to appeal to tribunals using grounds that PCN was non compliant and the authority failed to consider the point raised in the Representation?

For now just register your appeal and say something like "reasons to follow in due course", you then have some breathing space to type up your appeal.

Have a search through the forum for "Failure to consider" (Ground 4 in the appeal for this case http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...20&start=20 is a good starting point), and also research the points pointed out by other members, then post a draft on here for comment.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
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rsg444
post Thu, 15 Mar 2018 - 17:09
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Thanks cp8759.
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rsg444
post Fri, 16 Mar 2018 - 15:02
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What do I select as Grounds of appeal - I've gone for "The penalty charge exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case" or the other viable option is "The alleged contravention did not occur"
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PASTMYBEST
post Fri, 16 Mar 2018 - 15:05
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QUOTE (rsg444 @ Fri, 16 Mar 2018 - 15:02) *
What do I select as Grounds of appeal - I've gone for "The penalty charge exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case" or the other viable option is "The alleged contravention did not occur"



The penalty exceeded etc
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rsg444
post Fri, 16 Mar 2018 - 15:43
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Thanks
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PASTMYBEST
post Fri, 16 Mar 2018 - 15:50
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QUOTE (rsg444 @ Fri, 16 Mar 2018 - 15:43) *
Thanks


post here for review before you submit anything
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