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Parking Control Management PCM, driver stopped for 1 min on private road, E11 Leytonstone
WapChimney
post Wed, 24 May 2017 - 23:24
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I am the registered keeper of a vehicle that was photographed stopped on a private section of Joseph Ray Road, Leytonstone, E11. I have received a Parking Charge from Parking Control Management (UK) Ltd (PCM).

I believe the vehicle was stopped for no more than 60 seconds, before it was then driven away. The photograph was taken during this 1 minute by a man lurking at one end of the road, dressed in casual clothing.

Attached is the letter I received.

Any advice on best course of action would be appreciated. Thanks. smile.gif

This post has been edited by WapChimney: Fri, 26 May 2017 - 23:25
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post Wed, 24 May 2017 - 23:24
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emanresu
post Thu, 25 May 2017 - 04:10
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Heath Parade or High Point Village. If not read the threads about these two areas and the scams they run there.

Basically you cannot agree a contract in under a minute - no contract so no breach of contract. And if the signs say "No stopping" they are not offering a contract so no breach of contract.


--------------------
Where there is a claim - there is a counterclaim.
Are Parking companies misusing your personal data or interfering with your lease? Counterclaims are only £25. Makes them sit up and take notice. For leaseholds, join in the Managing agents too. Since the purpose of these claims is to frighten you, give them something to be frightened of.
Subject Access Requests to the DVLA?Find out who accessed your data and when. Try SubjectAccess.Requests@dvla.gsi.gov.uk. [Apologies if it does not work]
Double Dip / ANPR FaultsThe BPA Report on ANPR Double Dips is here. Ideal case for a counterclaim (see above).
Daily Court List. See who is doing what and where here
Printing and posting Witness Statements. Easy and cheap way DoxDirect
What is court like. A District Judge's view
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WapChimney
post Thu, 25 May 2017 - 22:39
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Thanks emanresu, it was neither of those locations.

The sign doesn't say no stopping, it says 'Parking conditions apply'.
I've been to the site myself and photographed the sign, please see attached if that's any help?
The sign itself measures approx 12 inches by 6 inches and can not be fully read/considered upon approach without stopping.

Do I need to prove that the car was stopped there for only a minute?
Or is it for them to prove that it was there longer (which it wasn't).

Or should I just ignore the whole thing?

This post has been edited by WapChimney: Thu, 25 May 2017 - 23:11
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emanresu
post Fri, 26 May 2017 - 05:47
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Same scam different location.

The issue is whether a driver can see, read, understand and agree terms in a short period of time. The driver would have to stop the car, get out and find the "parking conditions" by which time they have apparently breached terms.

So get an appeal in based on the same appeals from the High Point or Heath Parade. There is a good appeal over on the Parking Prankster's website.

Knowing this location would be useful as there will be others like you suffering this scam.


--------------------
Where there is a claim - there is a counterclaim.
Are Parking companies misusing your personal data or interfering with your lease? Counterclaims are only £25. Makes them sit up and take notice. For leaseholds, join in the Managing agents too. Since the purpose of these claims is to frighten you, give them something to be frightened of.
Subject Access Requests to the DVLA?Find out who accessed your data and when. Try SubjectAccess.Requests@dvla.gsi.gov.uk. [Apologies if it does not work]
Double Dip / ANPR FaultsThe BPA Report on ANPR Double Dips is here. Ideal case for a counterclaim (see above).
Daily Court List. See who is doing what and where here
Printing and posting Witness Statements. Easy and cheap way DoxDirect
What is court like. A District Judge's view
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Jlc
post Fri, 26 May 2017 - 08:20
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Trouble is no one is taking proper action against them. For the few that fight there's probably 20 that have paid up so it's still very profitable even with a few court loses. I'm annoyed this morning - also see this thread, a lot applies.


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RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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WapChimney
post Fri, 26 May 2017 - 21:00
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QUOTE (emanresu @ Fri, 26 May 2017 - 06:47) *
The issue is whether a driver can see, read, understand and agree terms in a short period of time. The driver would have to stop the car, get out and find the "parking conditions" by which time they have apparently breached terms.

So get an appeal in based on the same appeals from the High Point or Heath Parade. There is a good appeal over on the Parking Prankster's website.

Knowing this location would be useful as there will be others like you suffering this scam.


I'll edit the title to reflect the location, just always nervous about giving too much away to the other side, if they're reading.

Yeah, I had a good read through Parking Prankster's appeal and it all seems to make sense.

I noted he revealed who the driver was. Is that necessary?
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emanresu
post Sat, 27 May 2017 - 06:07
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QUOTE
I noted he revealed who the driver was. Is that necessary?


Judge: Were you the driver

Defendant: Don't think so

Judge: Then how can you say with any authority the signs were difficult to see


Despite the "don't name the driver" cult you see on some forums, the question should always be "is there an advantage in naming the driver". So decide for yourself. In the scenario above, the defendant is giving the judge the option to decide "on the balance of probabilities" what the driver may have seen and boxed themselves into a corner with regards to a defence based on what actually happened.


--------------------
Where there is a claim - there is a counterclaim.
Are Parking companies misusing your personal data or interfering with your lease? Counterclaims are only £25. Makes them sit up and take notice. For leaseholds, join in the Managing agents too. Since the purpose of these claims is to frighten you, give them something to be frightened of.
Subject Access Requests to the DVLA?Find out who accessed your data and when. Try SubjectAccess.Requests@dvla.gsi.gov.uk. [Apologies if it does not work]
Double Dip / ANPR FaultsThe BPA Report on ANPR Double Dips is here. Ideal case for a counterclaim (see above).
Daily Court List. See who is doing what and where here
Printing and posting Witness Statements. Easy and cheap way DoxDirect
What is court like. A District Judge's view
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Lynnzer
post Sat, 27 May 2017 - 08:29
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You might also consider that issueing a ticket for a single minutes period is against the relevant Code of Practice and as such is also against the reasonable cause of the KADOE Contact for them to access your details. Compliance to the Code of Practice is a strict (well.... should be...) condition of having access to the DVLA database.

You should tell them in no uncertain terms that they are in breach of their ATA Code of Practice by applying for your details with no reasonable cause, that being substaniated by their lack of compliance to a condition of the KADOE Contact and the ATA Code of Practice.

As a result their access to the DVLA to obtain your details was unreasonable and is a breach of the Data Protection Act. You now require them as Data Controllers within the meaning of the Data Protect Act, to remove your details from their system under Section 10 of the DPA, and to inform of that within 21 days. Failure of that will result in a complaint to the ICO and may result in a claim for damages for the unlawful use of your details.


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nigelbb
post Sat, 27 May 2017 - 08:50
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QUOTE (emanresu @ Sat, 27 May 2017 - 07:07) *
QUOTE
I noted he revealed who the driver was. Is that necessary?


Judge: Were you the driver

Defendant: Don't think so

Judge: Then how can you say with any authority the signs were difficult to see


Because on receiving this trumped up claim for damages I did my research & visited the location to establish what the basis of the claim was & can now state from my personal knowledge & prove with photographs that the signs would have been difficult for the driver to see.

This post has been edited by nigelbb: Sat, 27 May 2017 - 08:52


--------------------
British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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WapChimney
post Thu, 1 Jun 2017 - 19:57
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Thanks guys. Got caught up with other bureaucracy, but tonight have drafted this letter to PCM to cancel the charge. Please could you have a look and let me know if it's good to go. I have been careful with the wording, and at this stage have not revealed the driver (at least I don't think I have?!).

QUOTE
Dear Sir,

As registered keeper of the vehicle XXXXXXX I received your letter dated XXXXXX asking for payment of £100, and a photo of the above vehicle in a private section of Joseph Ray Road, E11.

I am disputing your payment request, and ask that it be cancelled for three reasons, two of which are due to breaches by yourselves of the International Parking Community (IPC) Code of Practice. I would like to remind you that as a member of IPC, your company and its employees agree to abide by this code.


Firstly, no attempt was made by your employee (who was taking the photograph) to communicate with the driver, nor any request was made by them for the driver to move on. Your employee was instead observed loitering at one end of Joseph Ray Road waiting and photographing any vehicle (including the vehicle in question) which stopped for even the shortest amount of time. This is a breach of Point 14 of the IPC Code of Practice:

14. Predatory Tactics
14.1 You must not use predatory or misleading tactics to lure drivers into incurring parking charges. Such instances will be viewed as a serious instance of non-compliance and will be dealt with under the sanctions system as defined in schedule 2 to the Code.



Secondly, the vehicle in question was stationary for less than one minute, before being driven away (and out of Joseph Ray Road). This is another clear breach of the IPC Code of Practice by your employee, in that they did not allow any grace period whatsoever.

15. Grace Periods
15.1 Drivers should be allowed a sufficient amount of time to park and read any signs so they may make an informed decision as to whether or not to remain on the site.



Lastly, due to the vehicle being stopped for less than one minute, no contract on any signage could have been approached, read, considered and agreed upon (or declined) within such a short amount of time. Therefore no contract was formed for the driver to have breached. This makes your request for payment unjustifiable.

In light of these points I politely ask that this payment request be cancelled immediately. If however you choose to proceed to court, I will defend this case vigorously and exercise my right to counter claim for damages.


Yours faithfully.....


Please let me know your thoughts. smile.gif
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WapChimney
post Sun, 4 Jun 2017 - 13:19
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Anybody able to please comment on my proposed letter in the post above?
Would like to get something sent off this week.

Thanks. smile.gif

This post has been edited by WapChimney: Sun, 4 Jun 2017 - 13:19
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Umkomaas
post Sun, 4 Jun 2017 - 13:32
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Looks OK to me, but I don't expect you will get any response other than a rejection. Do come back and confirm that I'm correct let us know the outcome
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SchoolRunMum
post Sun, 4 Jun 2017 - 16:14
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PCM won't cancel the charge. This will be later defended & won in small claims.

Did you read the thread linked for you by Jlc in post #5?
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emanresu
post Sun, 4 Jun 2017 - 16:54
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There are 6 HighPoint cases at Clerkenwell court tomorrow. At least 2 are cases where PCM cancelled 6 or 8 weeks ago. One is a counterclaim.

Have a feeling after tomorrow, there will be a lot more cancellations.


--------------------
Where there is a claim - there is a counterclaim.
Are Parking companies misusing your personal data or interfering with your lease? Counterclaims are only £25. Makes them sit up and take notice. For leaseholds, join in the Managing agents too. Since the purpose of these claims is to frighten you, give them something to be frightened of.
Subject Access Requests to the DVLA?Find out who accessed your data and when. Try SubjectAccess.Requests@dvla.gsi.gov.uk. [Apologies if it does not work]
Double Dip / ANPR FaultsThe BPA Report on ANPR Double Dips is here. Ideal case for a counterclaim (see above).
Daily Court List. See who is doing what and where here
Printing and posting Witness Statements. Easy and cheap way DoxDirect
What is court like. A District Judge's view
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SchoolRunMum
post Sun, 4 Jun 2017 - 19:17
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QUOTE (emanresu @ Sun, 4 Jun 2017 - 17:54) *
There are 6 HighPoint cases at Clerkenwell court tomorrow. At least 2 are cases where PCM cancelled 6 or 8 weeks ago. One is a counterclaim.

Have a feeling after tomorrow, there will be a lot more cancellations.


Hope so, Emanresu; really hope the counter-claim works!
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ostell
post Sun, 4 Jun 2017 - 21:21
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You don't request that they cancel, you demand.
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WapChimney
post Mon, 5 Jun 2017 - 12:44
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QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Sun, 4 Jun 2017 - 17:14) *
PCM won't cancel the charge. This will be later defended & won in small claims.

Did you read the thread linked for you by Jlc in post #5?
Yes I did, thanks, it gave me good background knowledge for how to approach my letter. Why, is there something I've missed?

QUOTE (ostell @ Sun, 4 Jun 2017 - 22:21) *
You don't request that they cancel, you demand.
Is that a serious suggestion? I obviously can change my wording, but if my letter is used as part of court action don't I need to show I've been reasonable and polite in my communication? The word 'demand' sounds aggressive to me??
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 5 Jun 2017 - 12:52
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No, it is expected

They are required to cancel, as they had no good reason to issue it in the first place.
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WapChimney
post Mon, 5 Jun 2017 - 20:25
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QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Sun, 4 Jun 2017 - 20:17) *
QUOTE (emanresu @ Sun, 4 Jun 2017 - 17:54) *
There are 6 HighPoint cases at Clerkenwell court tomorrow. At least 2 are cases where PCM cancelled 6 or 8 weeks ago. One is a counterclaim.

Have a feeling after tomorrow, there will be a lot more cancellations.


Hope so, Emanresu; really hope the counter-claim works!


Any way we can find out the outcome of today's 6 Clerkenwell court cases?
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emanresu
post Tue, 6 Jun 2017 - 05:21
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More today so pop along


--------------------
Where there is a claim - there is a counterclaim.
Are Parking companies misusing your personal data or interfering with your lease? Counterclaims are only £25. Makes them sit up and take notice. For leaseholds, join in the Managing agents too. Since the purpose of these claims is to frighten you, give them something to be frightened of.
Subject Access Requests to the DVLA?Find out who accessed your data and when. Try SubjectAccess.Requests@dvla.gsi.gov.uk. [Apologies if it does not work]
Double Dip / ANPR FaultsThe BPA Report on ANPR Double Dips is here. Ideal case for a counterclaim (see above).
Daily Court List. See who is doing what and where here
Printing and posting Witness Statements. Easy and cheap way DoxDirect
What is court like. A District Judge's view
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

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