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Police Witness Statement, False Corroboration
ben1974
post Mon, 29 Jan 2018 - 11:35
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Hi

I have pled not guilty for allegedly doing 101mph on the M1.
I wasn't speeding and therefore know the police have no evidence to use against me.
I have received my date to appear in court which is 09 March 2018.
I have called the CPS to request evidence of the alleged offence and they said that I should contact the police to get the evidence.

Any advice on how to move forward would be great

Thanks
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post Mon, 29 Jan 2018 - 11:35
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BaggieBoy
post Mon, 29 Jan 2018 - 11:51
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Telling us the whole story would be good start, such as how was the alleged offence detected etc.
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ben1974
post Mon, 29 Jan 2018 - 12:14
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Breakdown of the incident.

I was driving towards London Gateway Services, when I passed a patrol car, I noticed in my rear view mirror that I was then being followed by the police patrol car. He followed me for 6 miles until I reached the gyratory into the North London circular. He pulled me over and showed me a piece of paper with 101mph written on it and told me that I was doing an average speed of 101mph, whilst pointing to his piece of paper. I couldn't quite believe what was going on!! I was not speeding, I was fully aware that he was following me the whole time so I was certainly not going to speed. I didn't see any camera equipment mounted on the dash of his car either. I don't know if he was having a bad day, or just wanted to get his ticket rate up, but he's fitted me up.

I've pled not guilty and I need to prepare my case. I know he has zero evidence of the alleged offence, because I am telling the truth.



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AntonyMMM
post Mon, 29 Jan 2018 - 12:16
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Then they certainly do have evidence....but which you disagree with.

The officer will say that they measured your speed by following you - probably by keeping a set distance behind and looking at their own speedometer ( although there are other methods). That will be the evidence against you, no video is necessary.

Claiming you have been "fitted up" is unlikely to be a good tactic, unless you have actual evidence of it. Better to concentrate on the "officer must have been mistaken" angle. Don't forget your are charged with exceeding the speed limit, not at travelling at a specific speed (that is just relevant for sentencing) - so if you were exceeding 70mph, but not by as much as alleged, there may be an option to argue that by a Newton hearing.

This post has been edited by AntonyMMM: Mon, 29 Jan 2018 - 12:25
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ben1974
post Mon, 29 Jan 2018 - 12:34
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If he's used his Speedo to measure my speed, and he's determined that I was doing an average of 101 mph then he surely would have been following me doing 101mph? If this was the case why did he follow me for 6 miles doing and average of 101mph whilst not being in pursuit, and not flashing his lights?


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AntonyMMM
post Mon, 29 Jan 2018 - 12:43
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QUOTE (ben1974 @ Mon, 29 Jan 2018 - 12:34) *
If he's used his Speedo to measure my speed, and he's determined that I was doing an average of 101 mph then he surely would have been following me doing 101mph? If this was the case why did he follow me for 6 miles doing and average of 101mph whilst not being in pursuit, and not flashing his lights?


You can ask him in your cross examination ... I would guess his reply will probably be that he stopped you at the first opportunity he felt safe to do so (bearing in mind that 6 miles at that speed only takes about 3min30). Whatever the answer it doesn't actually challenge the speed measurement itself, which is what you must concentrate your defence on.

This post has been edited by AntonyMMM: Mon, 29 Jan 2018 - 12:43
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ben1974
post Mon, 29 Jan 2018 - 13:30
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The policeman has stated on the NIP that I was shown the VDU evidence, when in fact the only thing he showed me was a piece of paper with 101mph written on it. I will ask to see the VDU evidence in court. He is stating that a VDU was used to measure my speed, so he should be able to produce it in court.

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peterguk
post Mon, 29 Jan 2018 - 13:46
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QUOTE (ben1974 @ Mon, 29 Jan 2018 - 11:35) *
I wasn't speeding


So you were doing less than 70mph?


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Jlc
post Mon, 29 Jan 2018 - 13:57
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QUOTE (ben1974 @ Mon, 29 Jan 2018 - 13:30) *
VDU

ProViDa?

QUOTE (ben1974 @ Mon, 29 Jan 2018 - 12:34) *
If he's used his Speedo to measure my speed, and he's determined that I was doing an average of 101 mph then he surely would have been following me doing 101mph? If this was the case why did he follow me for 6 miles doing and average of 101mph whilst not being in pursuit, and not flashing his lights?

Probably performing pre-stop checks on your vrm. I don't think it makes any difference to the allegation.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Mon, 29 Jan 2018 - 13:57


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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The Rookie
post Mon, 29 Jan 2018 - 13:58
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QUOTE (ben1974 @ Mon, 29 Jan 2018 - 14:30) *
He is stating that a VDU was used to measure my speed, so he should be able to produce it in court.

Does it actually say that, a VDU cannot do that but from the description it sounds like he was using a Time and distance calculator like Provida - VASCAR is the best known time and distance device - they all work in much the same manner, button presses for start and end for target car and the following Police car for the time and distance respectively, it can also use a preset distance where they then park up and measure time only. If he was following you it would be bizarre that he wouldn't see a very different speed calculated to the one on his speedo. Is the officers witness statement in the pack you have? It may be worth copying it for us to look at.

I doubt the 'NIP' said that as
1/ No written NIP was needed
2/ Its not information required, or ever put, on a NIP.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Mon, 29 Jan 2018 - 14:00


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NewJudge
post Mon, 29 Jan 2018 - 14:12
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QUOTE (ben1974 @ Mon, 29 Jan 2018 - 11:35) *
I have called the CPS to request evidence of the alleged offence and they said that I should contact the police to get the evidence.


As far as getting the evidence goes, in most areas the CPS no longer prosecute speeding. Most minor traffic offences are now prosecuted by the police.

When you say you have pleaded Not Guilty, did you do so in court or was it a postal plea? In any case you should be served with the evidence the police intend to rely on to convict you before your next hearing.
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Logician
post Mon, 29 Jan 2018 - 14:14
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QUOTE (ben1974 @ Mon, 29 Jan 2018 - 13:30) *
The policeman has stated on the NIP that I was shown the VDU evidence, when in fact the only thing he showed me was a piece of paper with 101mph written on it. I will ask to see the VDU evidence in court. He is stating that a VDU was used to measure my speed, so he should be able to produce it in court.


It is not helpful if you use technical expressions you do not understand, you have not read on a NIP any statement from a policeman, what have you read it on and what does it say exactly and in full? We cannot help you unless you tell us the complete story.



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ben1974
post Mon, 29 Jan 2018 - 15:02
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Sorry I meant he ticked the Y box next to ‘was driver shown VDU display’ on the ticket.
I got the NIP about 40 days after the date of the alleged offence. The NIP contained a photocopy of the ticket.he issued. I was asked in that document how I wanted to plead. I ticked ’Not Guilty’ and explained why.

Sorry for my misunderstanding of document titles, I thought the ticket was the NIP
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peterguk
post Mon, 29 Jan 2018 - 15:10
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And the answer to my question?

QUOTE (ben1974 @ Mon, 29 Jan 2018 - 11:35) *
I wasn't speeding


So you were doing less than 70mph?


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ben1974
post Mon, 29 Jan 2018 - 15:14
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I was doing 70
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The Rookie
post Mon, 29 Jan 2018 - 15:34
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QUOTE (ben1974 @ Mon, 29 Jan 2018 - 16:02) *
I got the NIP about 40 days after the date of the alleged offence. The NIP contained a photocopy of the ticket.he issued. I was asked in that document how I wanted to plead. I ticked ’Not Guilty’ and explained why.

No you probably got the NIP verbally when you were stopped (he just had to indicate there was a likelihood you would be prosecuted), I'm not sure what you got 40 days later, but if asked how you wanted to plead it was probably a Single Justice Procedure Notice.

Again you need to be sure when using names for things that it is what you say it is.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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ben1974
post Mon, 29 Jan 2018 - 15:41
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Sorry, I don’t have the form on me as I’m at work. The Police asked me to phone a London Met Traffic Department number to requst evidence against me. The number is ‭020 7230 0565‬. I called but got a message saying they only available between 9am and - 12noon. Will try again tomorrow
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Jlc
post Mon, 29 Jan 2018 - 16:27
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VDU as in Visual Display Unit of the approved device I presume.

It's quite difficult to contemplate that a motorist going at 70mph has an allegation of over a ton. It's obviously quite easy to tell the difference between those 2 speeds and the officer will have no need to increase his numbers as catching speeders is like shooting fish in a barrel.

If the officer was truly 'fitting you up' then perhaps they won't want it to go to court but I suspect it will progress and video evidence may be available.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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The Rookie
post Mon, 29 Jan 2018 - 16:49
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My only though is that it was over a pre-measured distance and either
1/ There was an error in the distance or the 'clocking'
2/ They did indeed time a car such that the speed was calculated at 101mph but that in getting down onto the motorway and catching up with the car they got the wrong car.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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andy_foster
post Mon, 29 Jan 2018 - 19:47
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QUOTE (ben1974 @ Mon, 29 Jan 2018 - 13:30) *
The policeman has stated on the NIP that I was shown the VDU evidence,


What NIP?


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Andy

Some people think that I make them feel stupid. To be fair, they deserve most of the credit.
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