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Effective cycle lighting
notmeatloaf
post Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 22:30
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I ask this knowing I will get some grief, but it's good too see things outside an echo chamber.

One of the interesting things that translates from how doctors and nurses make mistakes to driving is the idea of saccades. This is that when surveying something, be it newly implanted kidney or roundabout, your eye flicks across the scene in three or four movements. Your brain then stitches those together into one picture. If you don't look carefully, especially around the joins, then your brain just fills in what it expects to see there, and you miss the surgical swab in the patient, or the motorcycle on the roundabout.

This is important for all road users, but especially motorcyclists and cyclists because they are more likely to get lost in a stitch. The standard advice is hi viz and flashing lights.

For myself, I commute about 300km a week on a bike, which with hospital shifts tends to be late at night and early morning when the drunk, drugged up, dopey and unlicenced come out to play.

Going back twenty years it was very easy, you put your 4 AA batteries in your light, turned it into full glow and off you went. Cars had halogen headlights, street lamps were all orange sodium, happy days.

Fast forward to now and we have LED street lights, DRLs, xenon lights, chav attempts at xenon lights, and standing out becomes much more difficult.

I have a Proviz vest, hi viz sleeves and gloves, three bright, large front lights and two large bright rear lights, with flourescent yellow panniers. Short of having a man walking in front with a red flag blowing a trumpet, it's impossible to be more visible.

I was knocked off earlier this year, fair enough bad luck. However at 6.30am on Saturday I was knocked off again on a wide, streetlit 20mph road. The driver hit me from behind and didn't even brake until after the impact. They turned out to be unlicenced and uninsured, which wasn't a great start. However according to them I "came out of nowhere".

Now, nowhere is a slight exaggeration compared to cycling along the side of the road lit up like a Christmas tree. However, it did make me realise that I am lit up to about the fullest extent permitted by law and still two drivers have failed to see me just this year.

As it was it was.just cuts and bruises and we agreed a cash amount to repair the bike/beer money and went on our way.

Anyway, I went and bought a light online which promises that no-one will miss you. It arrived the other day and it definitely delivers what it promises - a red strobe with white and blue LEDs mixed in means you definitely.stand out.

I am still in two minds whether to use it. It is, without a doubt overkill for most motorists and I hate the idea of supporting a lighting war, where everyone adds more and more. However, having tried it out it does seem to work, motorists noticeably pass more carefully and with more space - although that may be because they are trying to think of where the nearest hospital is.

I'm really conscious though that as a cyclist you have to think of the lowest denominator - in my case a Pakistani who clearly hasn't mastered the art of driving in cities other than Kabul, because even if they represent 0.01% of motorists, if they plough through you at 30mph it will be scant consolation.

So... as motorists... any thoughts welcome...
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post Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 22:30
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stamfordman
post Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 22:42
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QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 22:30) *
the lowest denominator - in my case a Pakistani who clearly hasn't mastered the art of driving in cities other than Kabul,



How did you know he was from Pakistan, given that Kabul is the capital of Afghanistan?
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southpaw82
post Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 22:59
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QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 22:30) *
a red strobe with white and blue LEDs mixed in means you definitely.stand out.

I suspect that may fall foul of the Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations.


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notmeatloaf
post Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 23:08
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 22:42) *
QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 22:30) *
the lowest denominator - in my case a Pakistani who clearly hasn't mastered the art of driving in cities other than Kabul,



How did you know he was from Pakistan, given that Kabul is the capital of Afghanistan?

Because I couldn't be bothered to look up the capital of Pakistan.

QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 22:59) *
QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 22:30) *
a red strobe with white and blue LEDs mixed in means you definitely.stand out.

I suspect that may fall foul of the Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations.

It undoubtedly does, what with seemingly being designed to be as annoying Ng as possible. However, with policing around here, I'm thinking the risk of being stopped versus the risk of emergency services finding me in a jam like consistency is favourable.
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southpaw82
post Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 23:20
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QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 23:08) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 22:59) *
QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 22:30) *
a red strobe with white and blue LEDs mixed in means you definitely.stand out.

I suspect that may fall foul of the Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations.

It undoubtedly does, what with seemingly being designed to be as annoying Ng as possible. However, with policing around here, I'm thinking the risk of being stopped versus the risk of emergency services finding me in a jam like consistency is favourable.

I see it a lot with motorcycles running around with full beams on during the day. Illegal but MCN probably told them to do it and if stopped they cite safety as an excuse.

Islamabad by the way.


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Sparxy
post Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 00:07
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As long as you don't have one of those obnoxious flashing white front lights aimed directly at drivers, which do nothing other than blind, annoy and also mean when it's pitch black it's difficult to make out where your bicycle actually is because of the strobing effect. I'm sure a few cycles recently have had brighter headlights than my cars dips.

A decent light to light in front of your bike (aimed away from drivers eye-line), a decent red rear light (flashing ok here!) and decent hi-vis clothing. I do like the new "grey" coats that reflect light at night and turn white, very visible.

I do agree, the current plethora of poorly fitted "aftermarket HID/LED" lights on the roads is absurd, and surely these guys are not taking them out each time the car is MOT'd? The new LED lights on cars, although appear to mostly have the auto-beam feature, are still ridiculously bright coming round a bend at night in the countryside.

This post has been edited by Sparxy: Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 00:09
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typefish
post Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 01:59
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QUOTE (Sparxy @ Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 00:07) *
surely these guys are not taking them out each time the car is MOT'd


Or it could just be that the lights are fixed in one position (a legal position) when fitted, and as soon as there is weight in the car, it goes to pot?

This post has been edited by typefish: Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 01:59
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Unzippy
post Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 02:18
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Got a link to the light?


You mention "two large bright rear lights", do you use them in a flashing/strobing mode?

Personally I think that makes a big difference in terms of being seen. Flashing rather than static.

As for annoying drivers - sod them. If you have annoyed them, at least they've seen you...

This post has been edited by Unzippy: Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 02:19
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The Rookie
post Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 07:05
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For the rear the Lezyne Strip drive 150 is awesome, about £20 off Evilbay, I like the double flash mode (2 flashes like a strobe and then a slightly longer off and repeat) and work colleagues who pass me on the way in tell me it’s really noticeable (catches the eye) even under street lights. USB charge with a rubber ‘bung’ cover. My old Moon 50 was good, this is even better.

Like you Hi-Vis gilet, sleeves only help side on or if indicating so I don’t bother for my commute as that doesn’t happen often enough.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 07:09


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notmeatloaf
post Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 13:41
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I dont know the brand, a colleague who already had one ordered it for me and I didn't keep the packaging. It appears to be a Chinese clone of a branded light.

I don't know why you can have flashing rear lights but not front. I want people pulling out on roundabouts, turning right across me or left hooking to see me just as much. I keep two on steady, one flashing, IMO it is substantially more visible for drivers doing hurried obs.
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nigelbb
post Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 14:14
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Have you considered that the safest option would be not cycling in the dark? Cyclists are very difficult to spot particularly in rain even with Hi Viz clothing & flashing lights as they present a much smaller profile than other road users when approaching them from behind. It's particularly bad when there is lots of other distracting lighting from cars & streetlights even worse in the wet with reflections.

If cyclists want to be seen at night they need to use the same illumination front & rear as a motorcycle & that includes the indicator lights.

This post has been edited by nigelbb: Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 14:16


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notmeatloaf
post Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 14:33
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The safest option is to lock the door, board up the windows and never leave the house and never go into the scary big world.

And I know plenty of people who have had SMIDSY motorcycle accidents, in fact I think in some ways they are more vulnerable because they can't use flashing lights and are travelling much faster. Fall off a push bike and you'll probably bounce, fall off a motorbike and you probably won't get back on.

I actually think with the advent of DRLs with a Proviz vest and proper lights you are actually more visible at night but with many more rubbish drivers about. During the day even with lights and hi viz it is difficult to stand out.

If you had motorbike lights if it was practical - which it would isn't - people are just as likely to mistake you for a motorcycle and misjudge your speed. Pretending to be a different vehicle seems like a bad idea.
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Steve_999
post Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 14:43
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QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 13:41) *
. . . .

I don't know why you can have flashing rear lights but not front.

. . . .


I understood that the regulations do now allow a flashing front as well as rear lamp.
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DancingDad
post Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 15:22
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If I were a cyclist, my main concern would be being seen and bu55er the lighting law.
Better to be standing in front of a magistrate then carried by 6 mates and IMO far less likely.

From a driver's point of view....
Ninja cyclists at night... black clothes and no lights... WTF do they think they are doing? Far too many round here, often kids/teenagers.
Old fashioned glow worm lights and dark clothes... practicing to be a Ninja... low powered LED lights come into this class.
Higher power LEDs and hi viz clothes/stripes... I usually spot them
Flashing LEDs... easy to spot and I have no objection as a driver.
But, with both the last two, they cannot be aimed at driver's eyeline else they are blinding and as likely to cause a problem as solve it.
Same with LEDs on the helmet so aim where rider is looking.... my usual attitude is "feck orf you twassock" and I have said that to them when blinded by the silly wotsits.
Added rear lighting, seen lights on rucksacs or on back... adds visual aid.
Last is consider where you are using what.
Dark street and glow worms are readily seen while hi power LEDs can be blinding to other and flashing, mis-aimed are lethal.
And as always, nothing will work if the other driver is looking at a phone or tuning the radio sad.gif

Car lights have a lot to blame, I am convinced there is a weapons race going on as they get brighter and more blinding.
Even well lit cyclists on a well lit street can disappear behind a set of blinders, suddenly looming in front of you as they turn out of a queue to cross your path.
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cabbyman
post Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 15:39
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I agree with most of DD's comments.

I have no problem seeing a properly dressed and lit cyclist. I am sometimes surprised at seeing them, given the cycleway less than 100 yards away, but that is another argument!

My main plea would be not to shine them in my eyes. They could distract me, or overwhelm my vision, to such an extent that the avoidable object on the side of the road is missed until the last second, possibly causing me to swerve into the cyclist's intended path. You moan at me if my main beam isn't dipped; I do to you, likewise.

Recently, I have noticed an increase in the prevalence of all-white hi-vis jackets AND sleeves. They are fantastic and don't blind me.

And as for the idiot dressed all in black, with no lights, filtering between two lanes of traffic, in pouring rain, the other night, I say this: 'Taking a hand off to stick a finger up doesn't increase your safety, it only adds lack of control of your bike to it's lack of visibility!!!'


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The Rookie
post Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 15:50
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As a cyclist I despair of the twassocks just as much (and those who RLJ, ride illegally on pavements etc etc).

I would add with respect to cycle paths though, many are so badly designed that its often safer to stay on the road, many must be designed by people who haven't ridden a bike for at least 30 years and never ridden one seriously.


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cabbyman
post Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 15:59
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The one to which I am referring is alongside the water here:

https://goo.gl/maps/jNFdQaLpTcU2

It is wide, modern and specifically designed to give cyclists a safe alternative to riding on a road that is jammed up 18 hours a day. The roundabout to the north of the railway viaduct has been the site of many serious injuries, and at least one death, to cyclists and was the primary factor cited by by the local authority for the provision of an effective cycle network in the vicinity.

The idiot that I was referring to was filtering, northbound, to the south of the smaller roundabout near the junction of Mill Road, where there are wide, paved areas on both sides of the main road, away from traffic.

EDIT: Purely randomly, have a look at the traffic on that stretch now and at any time between 0630 & 1930 over the next few days.

This post has been edited by cabbyman: Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 16:01


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Spandex
post Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 16:39
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Personally, I’m in favour of as much annoying lighting as possible on cyclists. I occasionally have moments of “Jesus, that’s excessive” when I see a high-powered Xmas tree approaching, but I have to remind myself that at least that annoyance means I’ve seen them well in advance. That, after all, is the most important thing.

There are relatively few cyclists on the roads compared to cars, and they’re significantly harder to see, and more vulnerable. Given those things, I think it’s fair enough if they want to go overboard with the lighting.
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nigelbb
post Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 17:02
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QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 15:33) *
The safest option is to lock the door, board up the windows and never leave the house and never go into the scary big world.

And I know plenty of people who have had SMIDSY motorcycle accidents, in fact I think in some ways they are more vulnerable because they can't use flashing lights and are travelling much faster. Fall off a push bike and you'll probably bounce, fall off a motorbike and you probably won't get back on.

I actually think with the advent of DRLs with a Proviz vest and proper lights you are actually more visible at night but with many more rubbish drivers about. During the day even with lights and hi viz it is difficult to stand out.

If you had motorbike lights if it was practical - which it would isn't - people are just as likely to mistake you for a motorcycle and misjudge your speed. Pretending to be a different vehicle seems like a bad idea.

Care & motorcycles have 50W headlights & 5W/20W rear/brake lights. For cyclists to be seen properly they need to have the same.


--------------------
British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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notmeatloaf
post Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 18:36
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QUOTE (nigelbb @ Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 17:02) *
Care & motorcycles have 50W headlights & 5W/20W rear/brake lights. For cyclists to be seen properly they need to have the same.

Quite obviously they don't, seeing as the whole premise of this thread is that you can get lights many times more noticeable without having to have an alternator fitted to your bike light. You also seldom have the need to see enough road ahead to travel at 70mph.

The whole "cyclists must follow every regulation drivers have to" is the claim of the unimaginative and intellectually lazy. It is quite clearly proportional to have considerably more regulatory burden on drivers than cyclists, if only by accident statistics.
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