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GoldLama
post Wed, 18 Apr 2018 - 13:29
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Hi all,

New member (I was referred here from another forum) and have been having a look around to try and understand how to fight a ticket I have received.

My wife was driving her car to her mother’s house. The most direct route is through a road which is a timed no entry between the hours of 0730 and 0930. It is intended (it seems) to prevent these quiet streets becoming a rat run for the Main Street round the corner.

My wife was taking our daughter to her mothers for the day, and arrived at the junction by her car clock at 0929. She then waited until 0931 at a nearby pub car park (which she remembers because the baby was crying the whole time) and proceeded. We have since received a penalty notice saying she went through at 0928.

How can I fight this? A difference of 3 minutes seems to me a very unjust reason for fining someone. It seems it would qualify for the “de minimus” defence I’ve seen mentioned but I can’t find any concrete information around it. I also thought it might be possible to argue that the cameras clock was wrong. How could I present this?

Otherwise it all appears to be in order: my car, my name, within 14 days, etc etc. Will happily give more details if required.

Thanks.
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post Wed, 18 Apr 2018 - 13:29
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 18 Apr 2018 - 13:49
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Yes more detail

Post the PCN a GSV and get and post the video


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All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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oldstoat
post Mon, 30 Apr 2018 - 16:23
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probably also best to ask a moderator to move this to the council ticket forums.


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Incandescent
post Mon, 30 Apr 2018 - 20:50
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This does indeed fall into the de minimis category, and from your account, (even waiting until gone 09.30 in a local pub car park until outside the time on the sign), should lead to the PCN being cancelled when challenged. However the operative word is "should". The dark heart of all decriminalised traffic contraventions enforcement is that the enforcer keeps all the moneys paid, yet is the one who considers any representations !! The only unbiased place is the adjudicators who are very likely to agree your case and order cancellation of the PCN. However to get to them you must firstly submit representations to the council who will almost invariably reject such reps. At this point you can register an appeal with London Tribunals. There is no additional cost in doing this, but the full PCN penalty is now in play, the discount will have gone.

So it's your choice: pay the discounted amount and be done with the matter, or fight them all the way with an excellent chance of the PCN being cancelled. As you've probably realised by now, going to adjudication is a "double-or-quits" gamble, some chances are excellent, some not. The only problem is it is never a certainty when one goes to adjudication so we never say a case is guaranteed.
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stamfordman
post Mon, 30 Apr 2018 - 20:58
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Car clocks are often not accurate. My cue to say always tune into FM radio and judge time by radio 4 pips or programme start.

But as PMB says this ought to be cancelled on de minimis. If it was the TFL congestion charge they wouldn't budge but a council should. Let's see the details.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Mon, 30 Apr 2018 - 20:58
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