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Willen Lake Parking- Fixed charge notice from Napier Parking
Wumingshi
post Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 13:55
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Hello,
I would like to ask for some help with a recent parking fine that received from Napier Parking.
We visited Willen Park in Milton Keynes on Sunday 7th Oct.
Before we left, the driver went to the machine and paid the parking charges using his/her card.
At that time, the machine shows payment was made and then it issued a ticket.
The driver assumed that it was a receipt ticket for paying the parking so s/he didn’t check and then left!

Last week, the Jeep received a fixed charge notice from Napier parking with a £100 fine and reduced to £60 if paid within 14 days.
It claims that the driver ‘Failure to make required payment in accordance with the terms and conditions’.

The driver was obviously very surprised to receive this notice as s/he honest thought s/he has paid.
So that driver went back to the car and found the ticket
s/he received from the machine and only then realised it shows’ void transaction’!!
Please see attached photo.
The smaller ticket on the left is the ticket received from the machine in question.
The larger ticket on the right is the correct payment receipt ticket if payment went through.

The car park also doesn’t make it very clear to the driver whether they have paid or not when they leave the car park.
It’s not a pay and display car park. You only pay when you leave and there isn’t any barriers to the exit (now I think they may have done this intentionally!).

I feel this is a genuine mistake and the driver shouldn’t be punished for it- especially the amount they are asking!!
I know th driver should have checked the ticket upon receipt but let’s be honest who checks it if the machine says payment was made and a form of ticket was issued?!

This is the second time that they have issued s/he the fine.
The driver’s first fine with them was at the same park and similar reasons. Th driver tried to pay with Apple pay and for some reason, it didn’t go through, they issued a fine and driver appealed, got rejected, so s/he paid it! This time, they upped their charges from £60 (£30 if paid within 30 days) to £100 (£ 60 if paid within 14 days). I think they think this is the second offence so they increase the penalty!

Anyway, the driver ha s appealed through NP’s website, but from the driver's first experience with them I think they will very likely to reject this appeal!
The driver has stated in the appeal that it was a genuine mistake that s/he did not check the ticket issued from the machine and asked them to withdraw this notice.
I have also attached the ticket the driver received to show them that s/he has tried to make payment and was honest.

If they reject, from reading other threads, it looks like the diver will need to go through a formal appeal with POPLA?
Could anyone help what should include or state in the POPLA appeal to make it a stronger case for the driver?
Any advice would be much appreciated!

BTW, I have already tried to email the park trust who owns the park and they said they cannot intervene and ask me to appeal through the normal process!
[attachment=58774:Untitled.jpg]

This post has been edited by Wumingshi: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 20:16
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post Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 13:55
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SchoolRunMum
post Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 18:44
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QUOTE
If they reject, from reading other threads, it looks like I will need to go through a formal appeal with POPLA?

No, because Napixr are not in the BPA AOS, so no POPLA, no independent fair appeal whatsoever. Nothing.

Same the one Napixr case from yesterday on here (go and find it, look back through the threads). Come back at court claim stage and they are winnable (no risk) mainly because Napixr use BW Legal who drop the ball and are useless at their robo claims.

QUOTE
This is the second time that they have issued me this fine.
My first fine with them was at the same park and similar reasons. I tried to pay with Apple pay and for some reason, it didn’t go through, they issued me a fine and I appealed, got rejected, so I paid it! This time, they upped their charges from £60 (£30 if paid within 30 days) to £100 (£ 60 if paid within 14 days). I think they think this is my second offence so they increase the penalty!


No, they have your car on a 'mugs list'. Sorry to say, you should NEVER have paid that first one, do not make that mistake again.

It's not even a fine. The industry is based upon an outrageous scam.

QUOTE
Anyway, I have appealed through NP’s website, but from my first experience with them I think they will very likely to reject my appeal!
I have stated in my appeal that it was a genuine mistake that I did not check the ticket issued from the machine and asked them to withdraw this notice.
I have also attached the ticket I receive to show them that I have tried to make payment and was honest.


Of course they will reject that. They will reject any appeal, because they can and because this is not a real fine from any fair minded industry. You CERTAINLY do not pay them and CERTAINLY do not try IAS stage.

See you at BW Legal court stage.

This post has been edited by SchoolRunMum: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 18:45
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Wumingshi
post Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 20:23
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Thank you Schoolrunmum,!
So what argument should I be preparing if this goes to court?
I guess Napier will threaten to charge me hundreds of pounds for this?
Sorry, I tried to look back at the threads about a siMilar case to mine but couldn't find it. Would you Mind to post me the link?
Thank you.
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SchoolRunMum
post Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 21:14
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QUOTE
I guess Napier will threaten to charge me hundreds of pounds for this?

You guess wrong, small claims doesn't work like that, like I said:

QUOTE
they are winnable (no risk)


I can't find a link any quicker than you could. Quickest maybe to search my posts as I replied to the other person...
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Wumingshi
post Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 13:52
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Thank you Schoolrunmum!
I will try to look back your posts for the similar Napier case.
Thank you so much!

I actually had a look at the first fixed charge notice that we paid for (£30). You are right, when they rejected the appeal they suggest to pay or appeal with IAS. If choose to do nothing, then will need to wait for the court letter and they will ask for full penalty charge of £100 + any costs they have to deal with the case!
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Wumingshi
post Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 14:53
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QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 22:14) *
QUOTE
I guess Napier will threaten to charge me hundreds of pounds for this?

You guess wrong, small claims doesn't work like that, like I said:

QUOTE
they are winnable (no risk)


I can't find a link any quicker than you could. Quickest maybe to search my posts as I replied to the other person...


Hello Schoolrunmum, sorry to bother you again.
Is this the post that you asked me to refer to?

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=116670
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emanresu
post Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 15:57
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Have you contacted Napier and explained the issue. Have you asked them to cancel as you had no intent to deprive them of the income. The contract was "frustrated" because of the failure of their payment system.


--------------------
Where there is a claim - there is a counterclaim.
Are Parking companies misusing your personal data or interfering with your lease? Counterclaims are only £25. Makes them sit up and take notice. For leaseholds, join in the Managing agents too. Since the purpose of these claims is to frighten you, give them something to be frightened of.
Subject Access Requests to the DVLA?Find out who accessed your data and when. Try SubjectAccess.Requests@dvla.gsi.gov.uk. [Apologies if it does not work]
Double Dip / ANPR FaultsThe BPA Report on ANPR Double Dips is here. Ideal case for a counterclaim (see above).
Daily Court List. See who is doing what and where here
Printing and posting Witness Statements. Easy and cheap way DoxDirect
What is court like. A District Judge's view
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Wumingshi
post Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 17:54
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QUOTE (emanresu @ Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 16:57) *
Have you contacted Napier and explained the issue. Have you asked them to cancel as you had no intent to deprive them of the income. The contract was "frustrated" because of the failure of their payment system.


Hello, yes. an appeal was sent through Napier‘s website. Basically explained what I have said here in my first post.
But I expect them to reject my appeal.
This is the second time it happened.
The first time, we tried to pay at the machine (the same place!) and wasn't sure if the payment went through. We left. But then drove back to the car park to try to pay again. But machine only takes it as a NEW parking. So there was no way we could repaid the last parking ticket even if we want to. Soa fixed charge come through as for £100 and reduCe to £30 if pad within 30 days. We appealed, explained what happened and even shown them the ticket we paid for the new parking to show that we actually went back and tried to pay. Still rejection. So we paid £30.
This time, they now ask for £100 and £60 if paid within 14 days. It's just outrageous!!!!
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SchoolRunMum
post Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 21:40
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QUOTE
Hello Schoolrunmum, sorry to bother you again.
Is this the post that you asked me to refer to?

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=116670


No that's from a year ago.

I mean the other Napier thread, live here on page one right now (the poster has actually PAID...she says through gritted teeth...terrible to fund the scam when here, in full knowledge).

This post has been edited by SchoolRunMum: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 21:40
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Wumingshi
post Thu, 18 Oct 2018 - 13:48
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Hello, I'm reading a lot of posts advising people not to reveal driver ID during appeal.
Could someone tell me what are the reasons for this?

What happens if driver ID was reviewed during the appeal and also when writing letter to the landowner?

This post has been edited by Wumingshi: Thu, 18 Oct 2018 - 13:49
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emanresu
post Thu, 18 Oct 2018 - 13:57
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QUOTE
Could someone tell me what are the reasons for this?


Paranoia.

This post has been edited by emanresu: Thu, 18 Oct 2018 - 13:57


--------------------
Where there is a claim - there is a counterclaim.
Are Parking companies misusing your personal data or interfering with your lease? Counterclaims are only £25. Makes them sit up and take notice. For leaseholds, join in the Managing agents too. Since the purpose of these claims is to frighten you, give them something to be frightened of.
Subject Access Requests to the DVLA?Find out who accessed your data and when. Try SubjectAccess.Requests@dvla.gsi.gov.uk. [Apologies if it does not work]
Double Dip / ANPR FaultsThe BPA Report on ANPR Double Dips is here. Ideal case for a counterclaim (see above).
Daily Court List. See who is doing what and where here
Printing and posting Witness Statements. Easy and cheap way DoxDirect
What is court like. A District Judge's view
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 18 Oct 2018 - 14:10
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The reason not to reveal the drivers identity is that, without it, the only person they can try to hold liable is the Keeper
In order to hold the Keeper liable they have to follow the strict provisions of POFA 2012 schedule 4

Perhaps you should read up on this.
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Wumingshi
post Thu, 18 Oct 2018 - 15:02
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Thank you Guys!
So is it still worth pursuing further if appeal rejected if in appeal to Napier used 'I'?
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 18 Oct 2018 - 15:07
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Maybe post the appeal up. THat would be fairly useful for us to see.
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Wumingshi
post Thu, 25 Oct 2018 - 12:38
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[quote name='nosferatu1001' date='Thu, 18 Oct 2018 - 16:07' post='1426369']
Maybe post the appeal up. THat would be fairly useful for us to see.
[/quote

There were two appeals sent online actually.
Both used 'I' to explain what had happened.

Did not keep the first appeal sent but here is the 2nd one sent the next day because the driver felt the first appeal sent was not well written.
And it has given the name in the end of the letter!

To whom it may concern,
Hello, I have yesterday submitted an appeal on your website for the same ‘Fixed charge notice’. However I felt that I have not explained what happened fully and therefore, I would like to explain this more in detail today.
On XXXX. We visited Willen lake in Milton Keynes and parked our car at the carpark. Before we left, I went to the payment machine and tried to pay the parking with my card. The machine shows payment was made at that time and issued me a ticket. We took the ticket and assumed it was the payment receipts. We then left the car park.
I was very surprised when I received the letter about the fixed charge. I then checked the ticket that I received from the Machine on 7th Oct and realised that it shows ‘Void transaction’. I have attached here a photo of the ticket received on 7th October. It was a genuine mistake and I feel it’s unfair to penalize us for it. In addition, the car park doesn’t make it clear to drivers whether they have paid or not as there aren’t any barriers at the exit.
I would really appreciate that you could consider withdrawing this penalty.
Thank you.
NAME

This post has been edited by Wumingshi: Thu, 25 Oct 2018 - 13:43
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Wumingshi
post Thu, 25 Oct 2018 - 13:35
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The letter from Napier attached here:

This post has been edited by Wumingshi: Thu, 25 Oct 2018 - 13:43
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ostell
post Fri, 26 Oct 2018 - 07:42
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But that first card receipt showed that the payment was approved. Has it appeared on your bank statement?

I would just wait and when they take it to court explaing to the judge that you paid but there was an equipment failure.
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Wumingshi
post Mon, 12 Nov 2018 - 19:30
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Q
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SchoolRunMum
post Tue, 13 Nov 2018 - 00:00
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QUOTE (ostell @ Fri, 26 Oct 2018 - 08:42) *
But that first card receipt showed that the payment was approved. Has it appeared on your bank statement?

I would just wait and when they take it to court explaining to the judge that you paid but there was an equipment failure.


Yes, do this. come back when you get a LBC or a claim, and read other threads about BW Legal LBCs and Claims in the meantime. Of course it's worth fighting and luckily, Napier use BW Legal which means the claim preparation will be non existent, the evidence full of holes, and the rep unprepared in court, all of which gives an honest witness Defendant a good chance.

No risk, no CCJ, worst case scenario is a case or two being lost here (very rare) and it has no effect on credit rating if you lose and pay, and no huge costs are able to be added.
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