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Letter before Claim from Gladstones Solicitors - Seymour Grove Retail Park
raddoc
post Tue, 13 Nov 2018 - 18:52
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Hello,

I received a parking charge notice for £100 in the post from a company called ES Parking Enforcement from July 2018.

Parking at the site (a car park on Seymour Grove Trafford Manchester) is free but the alleged contravention is for "leaving the site". There are a few shops facing the car park, an Iceland, a newsagent and an Aldi (which has since closed down). It is not clear that it is a contravention to 'leave the site' if visiting the parade of shops directly adjacent to the car park. The signs are quite high up on the photographs that they have sent and would be quite difficult to read. The actual 'Site' is not defined either.

Their website shows additional photos and they do show an occupant getting out of the car and walking in the direction of the adjacent takeaway and also outside the takeaway entrance.

I appealed to ES Parking and then to IAS on the grounds of unclear and ambiguous signage but both were rejected. The PCN was then raised to £125. I have now received "Letter before Claim" from Gladstones Solicitors demanding £160 or they will commence court proceedings. Am furious about this as have parked there for many years without a problem and there is no indication that the rules had changed as to which shops could be visited.

I would appreciate thoughts on how likely I am to win in court and how time consuming and difficult it is to launch a challenge to Gladstones.
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post Tue, 13 Nov 2018 - 18:52
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Ollyfrog
post Sat, 23 Feb 2019 - 19:19
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First thing is to go onto MCOL and do the AOS. Use the password and claim number that you have.

Select
defend all
do not contest jurisdiction
Do not put anything AT ALL in the defence box

That now gives you extra time to do the defence. Tell us the date and particulars of claim.

- your costs are just costs, not a counterclaim, and will be dealt with much later in the process

This post has been edited by Ollyfrog: Sat, 23 Feb 2019 - 19:21
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nosferatu1001
post Sun, 24 Feb 2019 - 12:30
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1) do the above
2) tell us the issue date
3) you need to get on with writing a defence

Read
MSE forum - parking forum - newbies thread x post two

This takes you through the entire process
Gives an example,defence
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raddoc
post Sun, 24 Feb 2019 - 22:53
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AOS done - defend all.

Issue date 22/2/2019

POC: The driver of the vehicle with registration: XXXX XXX ('the vehicle') parked in breach of the terms of parking stipulated on the signage (the "Contract") at Seymour Grove Retail Park on xx/xx/20xx thus incurring the parking charge (the 'PCN'). The driver of the vehicle agreed to pay the PCN within 28 days of issue yet failed to do so. The claimant claims the unpaid PCN from the defendant as the driver/keeper of the vehicle. Despite demands being made, the defendant has failed to settle their outstanding liability. The Claimant claims £100 for the PCN, £60 contractual costs pursuant to the contract and PCN terms and conditions, together with statutory interest of £xx pursuant to s69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at 8.00% per annum, continuing at £xx per day.
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 25 Feb 2019 - 09:05
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So, from reading your form and the MCOL website carefully, you know yo uhave 33 days for the court to RECEIVE your defence, starting from 22.02.19

You WILL write this on a PC, with numbered paragraphs, insert a photo of your signature at the bottom, convert to PDF and then EMAIL to the court.
Tht is the ONLY way to submit your defence that ensures a) it is received and b) nothing goes wonky with formatting.

You do NOT get a reminder of this, so you MUST put this deadline in your diary. In fact give yourself lots of reminders
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raddoc
post Wed, 13 Mar 2019 - 10:20
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Here is my defence - any comments/amendments advised ?


IN THE COUNTY COURT

CLAIM No: xxxxxxxxxx

BETWEEN:

ES PARKING ENFORCEMENT LTD (Claimant)

-and-

xxxxxxxxxxxx (Defendant)

________________________________________
DEFENCE
________________________________________

1. The Defendant denies that the Claimant is entitled to relief in the sum claimed, or at all.

2. The facts are that the vehicle, registration XXXX, of which the Defendant is the registered keeper, was parked legitimately on the material date in a marked bay at Seymour Grove Retail Park, Manchester.

3. The Particulars of Claim state that the Defendant as the driver of the vehicle parked in breach of the terms stipulated on the signage. Due to the sparseness of the particulars, it is unclear as to what legal basis the claim is brought, whether for breach of contract, contractual liability, or trespass. However, it is denied that the Defendant, or any driver of the vehicle, entered into any contractual agreement with the Claimant, whether express, implied, or by conduct. Further, the particulars of the claim do not meet the requirements of Practice Direction 16 7.5 as there is nothing which specifies how the terms were breached.

4. Further and in the alternative, it is denied that the claimant's signage sets out the terms in a sufficiently clear manner which would be capable of binding any reasonable person reading them. They merely state that customers must remain on site for the entire period of parking, giving no indication whatsoever which retail units on the boundaries of the car park constitute part of "the site" and which do not.

5. The terms on the Claimant's signage are also displayed in a font which is too small to be read from a passing vehicle, and is in such a position that anyone attempting to read the small font would be unable to do so easily. It is, therefore, denied that the Claimant's signage is capable of creating a legally binding contract.

6. The Claimant is put to strict proof that it has sufficient proprietary interest in the land, or that it has the necessary authorisation from the landowner to issue parking charge notices, and to pursue payment by means of litigation.

7. The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4, at Section 4(5) states that the maximum sum that may be recovered from the keeper is the charge stated on the Notice to Keeper, in this case £100. The claim includes an additional £60, for which no calculation or explanation is given, and which appears to be an attempt at double recovery.

8. In summary, it is the Defendant's position that the claim discloses no cause of action, is without merit, and has no real prospect of success. Accordingly, the Court is invited to strike out the claim of its own initiative, using its case management powers pursuant to CPR 3.4.

I believe the facts contained in this Defence are true.

Name
Signature
Date



Should this go in anywhere:
The Particulars of Claim state that the Defendant was the registered keeper and/or the driver of the vehicle;. These assertions indicate that the Claimant has failed to identify a Cause of Action, and is simply offering a menu of choices. As such, the Claim fails to comply with Civil Procedure Rule 16.4, or with Civil Practice Direction 16, paras. 7.3 to 7.5. Further, the particulars of the claim do not meet the requirements of Practice Direction 16 7.5 as there is nothing which specifies how the terms were breached.

Also should I include that I followed the IAS appeals procedure but that the appeal was rejected with no consideration given to any of the points raised ?

Thanks
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ostell
post Wed, 13 Mar 2019 - 10:43
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Can you work in a reference to the "toothbrush" case? VCS v Ibbotson Not a precedent but could be persuasive.
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bearclaw
post Wed, 13 Mar 2019 - 15:36
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Indeed....

The Operator on site observed the Driver leaving, and took no action to inform him of the costs incurred. As such the Operator has failed to adequately mitigate their loss in this matter. In the case of VCS v Ibbotson, on page xxx district judge YYY said "blah blah" indicating that such actions would be reasonable expected of an Operator in such a position.
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raddoc
post Sun, 17 Mar 2019 - 19:45
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QUOTE (bearclaw @ Wed, 13 Mar 2019 - 15:36) *
Indeed....

The Operator on site observed the Driver leaving, and took no action to inform him of the costs incurred. As such the Operator has failed to adequately mitigate their loss in this matter. In the case of VCS v Ibbotson, on page xxx district judge YYY said "blah blah" indicating that such actions would be reasonable expected of an Operator in such a position.



Do you think this reads ok?

Further the operator on site observed the Driver leaving the poorly defined site and took no action to inform her of the potential costs incurred. As such, the Operator has failed to adequately mitigate the their loss in this matter. In the case of VCS v Ibbotson, on pages 8-9 district judge McIlwaine questioned why "as a lawful authorised member of the company at the time he is there and there is a duty to mitigate the loss", the Operator did not approach and advise the Driver of the potential loss, indicating that such actions would reasonably expected of an Operator in such a position.
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raddoc
post Tue, 19 Mar 2019 - 21:25
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Mon, 25 Feb 2019 - 09:05) *
So, from reading your form and the MCOL website carefully, you know yo uhave 33 days for the court to RECEIVE your defence, starting from 22.02.19

You WILL write this on a PC, with numbered paragraphs, insert a photo of your signature at the bottom, convert to PDF and then EMAIL to the court.
Tht is the ONLY way to submit your defence that ensures a) it is received and b) nothing goes wonky with formatting.

You do NOT get a reminder of this, so you MUST put this deadline in your diary. In fact give yourself lots of reminders



I have emailed the Defence with photograph of signature embedded as advised.
Do you think I should send a signed paper copy by registered post to the Northampton Court so they have a proper signed copy or will it potentially just cause confusion ?
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Tankmania
post Tue, 26 Mar 2019 - 00:32
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My wife got a ticket at the same car park for the same reason. I first appealed, they rejected. I appealed again to the IAS and soon after they sent an email saying ES Parking have cancelled the ticket. Sorry to hear its going to court for you. I hope after reading below it will instill some confidence for your defence.

Please see below what I used in my appeal.


The Site Enforcer operative has used PREDATORY TACTICS in direct contravention with the IPC code of practice.
An UNMARKED black coloured vehicle was used by the Site Enforcer operative which is a serious contravention of the code of practice.
IPC’s Code of Practice for parking on private land, Part B section 14 (14.1) Predatory Tactics, states: “You must not use predatory or misleading tactics to lure drivers into incurring parking charges. Such instances will be viewed as a serious instance of non-compliance and will be dealt with under the sanctions system as defined in schedule 2 to the Code.”

ES Parking Enforcement LTD has been known to use predatory tactics in another Manchester location as the alleged incident of stopping/parking.

ESPEL have been in the Manchester Evening News on 17th May 2016 for predatory tactics. Where ESPEL Parking enforcement officers are concealed in unmarked vehicles when taking photographs.

I have listed a weblink to the article below.

(http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/delivery-driver-caught-out-secret-11338946).


I do have the exact reg of the vehicle too but not with me at the time of writing this. Its always either an unmarked black Kia or a BMW. In my opinion a witness statement would benefit that bit extra.

Good luck.
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Tankmania
post Tue, 26 Mar 2019 - 13:15
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Attached copy of email

This post has been edited by Tankmania: Tue, 26 Mar 2019 - 13:16
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raddoc
post Tue, 26 Mar 2019 - 20:29
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QUOTE (Tankmania @ Tue, 26 Mar 2019 - 00:32) *
My wife got a ticket at the same car park for the same reason. I first appealed, they rejected. I appealed again to the IAS and soon after they sent an email saying ES Parking have cancelled the ticket. Sorry to hear its going to court for you. I hope after reading below it will instill some confidence for your defence.

Please see below what I used in my appeal.


The Site Enforcer operative has used PREDATORY TACTICS in direct contravention with the IPC code of practice.
An UNMARKED black coloured vehicle was used by the Site Enforcer operative which is a serious contravention of the code of practice.
IPC’s Code of Practice for parking on private land, Part B section 14 (14.1) Predatory Tactics, states: “You must not use predatory or misleading tactics to lure drivers into incurring parking charges. Such instances will be viewed as a serious instance of non-compliance and will be dealt with under the sanctions system as defined in schedule 2 to the Code.”

ES Parking Enforcement LTD has been known to use predatory tactics in another Manchester location as the alleged incident of stopping/parking.

ESPEL have been in the Manchester Evening News on 17th May 2016 for predatory tactics. Where ESPEL Parking enforcement officers are concealed in unmarked vehicles when taking photographs.

I have listed a weblink to the article below.

(http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/delivery-driver-caught-out-secret-11338946).


I do have the exact reg of the vehicle too but not with me at the time of writing this. Its always either an unmarked black Kia or a BMW. In my opinion a witness statement would benefit that bit extra.

Good luck.



Thanks very much Tankmania - that's really helpful.
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raddoc
post Tue, 9 Jul 2019 - 16:40
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Update on my case:
Defence submitted.
DQ submitted by both parties.
Received notice of transfer of proceedings to our local county court.

Received "General form of Judgement or Order" letter indicating PoC do not comply with CPR and were struck out and Claimant had to serve a POC supported by statement of truth identifying several things (see attached).
Gladstone's duly responded few days later with Particulars of Claim (attached)- looks like a standard template to my untrained eye. Anything in there of note ?
Do I need to do anything about judge statement in General Form of Judgment letter offering me opportunity to send substitute defence by 19th August - I presume not.
Not received Notice of Allocation or any timetable for exchanging statements - guess that will be coming soon.
Thanks for any advice offered.
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Mozzer82
post Tue, 9 Jul 2019 - 21:27
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No advice sorry, but I am in exactly the same position as you wrt the same car park and operator. I am at the letter before claim stage.
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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 10 Jul 2019 - 09:34
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You SHOULD file and serve an amended defence, as you can now be more specific
This means amended. Start with first defence and STRIKE OUT any changes, add in RED any additions.
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ManxRed
post Wed, 10 Jul 2019 - 09:46
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If you are using Word select Track Changes from the Review section, that will highlight any changes made - additions and deletions.


--------------------
Sometimes I use big words I don't understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.
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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 10 Jul 2019 - 10:05
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Does word export those tracked changes into PDF? If not, its useless for this purpose.
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ManxRed
post Wed, 10 Jul 2019 - 10:19
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Yes it does. Ensure 'Show Markup' is selected. When complete select 'Save As', and click on the drop down box for filetype, and select '.pdf'.

The markup is shown in the resulting pdf.

This post has been edited by ManxRed: Wed, 10 Jul 2019 - 10:20


--------------------
Sometimes I use big words I don't understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.
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raddoc
post Sun, 8 Dec 2019 - 12:22
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Have received court date for few months time but need to submit defence by end of this month and anything after not permissible.

Line of defence will be ambiguity of signage. I can show evidence of appropriate signage from other car parks. Also will argue predatory tactics used by car park operator. Have email from local MP indicating many constituents have complained about fines at this site and company are not responding to or engaging with her.

What else should go in there in addition to defence already submitted ?
Thanks
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Sheffield Dave
post Sun, 8 Dec 2019 - 20:37
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QUOTE (raddoc @ Sun, 8 Dec 2019 - 12:22) *
Have received court date for few months time but need to submit defence by end of this month and anything after not permissible.

You have already submitted your defence. At this stage you don't add anything to the defence (you can't), instead you submit your witness statement (a narrative of what you personally saw or did), plus relevant evidence (photos, letters). Evidence is referred to from your witness statement to explain how the evidence came about, e.g. "the photos in exhibit RADDOC001 were taken by me on the day after the parking event".
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