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FightBack Forums _ Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalised Notices _ PCN Issued for parking in Suspended Bay with no signage

Posted by: saynotopcn Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 23:00
Post #1398081

Firstly, I'd like to apologise if this issue has been discussed before but having searched for a reasonable time I could only find cases similar, such as signs being present at the time the PCN was issued but not the day before, etc.

Received a PCN today at 17:37 for parking in a suspended bay and think the circumstances make the ticket unfair, to say the least.

There were "At Any Time" cones along the high street in Ashby today but there was a large gap in the cones outside the chippy which was convenient as this is exactly where I needed to stop. I pulled up, checked around for signs and there were two visible: both fixed permanent and stating "Monday-Saturday. 8am-6pm. 1 hour. No Return within one hour", one to the front and one to the rear of the vehicle. There were no conflicting notices to suggest these signs were no longer appropriate. There were no cones between the two of these signs and there was also a sign in the chip shop window stating "Parking for Customers Only". Each of these factors leading me to believe that perhaps the shop had contested the suspension along the rest of the street and it did therefore not apply to this section of the road.

Got my Son out the car and went into the shop and ordered our food. As it was cooking, I saw a CEO approach my vehicle and begin making observations. I went out of the shop and he asked if the vehicle was mine, to which I admitted it was. He informed me I couldn't park there so I explained that I was only waiting on my food order and the only signs present indicated that I could indeed park there. He said he'd call his supervisor and if the food was done before his supervisor got there, I could leave penalty free.

The supervisor arrived and immediately said you cant park here today all the bays are suspended. I asked him where the signs were to explain this and his reply was, and I quote, "We don't need to put signs up for a tempory parking bay suspension". Surely this can not be correct?? He then told the original CEO to "Crack on and slap a ticket on him" and moved one of the "at any time cones that was at least three meters away to less than a meter away!

The ticket is only £35 if paid within the 14 days but it's the damn principle of the matter and to add insult to injury, as I took photos of the signage either side of the vehicle, I told my 5-year-old son to wait on the pavement at the front of the car and the supervisor must have said something quite upsetting to him as he was extremely distressed and upset to the point of tears when we got back into the car - Would it also be reasonable to ask the council to make this supervisor personally apologise for the upset he caused, especially if it is the case that this PCN has been issued incorrectly?


Many thanks to everyone who contributes to this thread.





No Cone present in front of the vehicle:


Cone manoeuvred in front of the vehicle




Posted by: DancingDad Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 23:38
Post #1398089

Weird
While cones are all well and good, a council has a duty to clearly sign any restriction, including suspensions, clearly to motorists.
Conversely, motorists have a duty to look for signs and obey them.
And are entitled to rely upon signage in place.
That there are parking bays and clear signage with nothing (except cones) to say you could not rely on them, I would say a good chance of winning.
100% without the cones being present but less so with cones around.
However, as cones can be moved and do not specify, except generally, where a suspension may be, still very high chance of winning IMO.
Streetview not much help BTW, shows DYLs not parking bays
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.7477867,-1.4692419,3a,90y,341.28h,76.71t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1smly2uTiAoApAy8kE-HzUpA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


I am not sure contravention is correct BTW.
For it to be, would need to be a temporary traffic order but in a parking bay, that would normally not apply.
With any challenge, must ask for a copy of the traffic order applicable.
Still does not excuse lack of appropriate signage

Posted by: big_mac Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 23:53
Post #1398092

QUOTE (saynotopcn @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 00:00) *
No Cone present in front of the vehicle:

There is, although almost cropped out of the picture. There are two of them which can be seen very close to the car.
One is also visible in the previous picture, although again, the picture has been taken from an angle which does not show it clearly.

Posted by: Mad Mick V Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 07:31
Post #1398104

The only thing on https://leicestershire.roadworks.org is work o/s No. 100 which is a distance away.

As DD has said, they would need a Sect 14 Order to enforce a Code 01 contravention and that would have to be posted on lamp posts long before the event.

I don't believe anyone other than a police constable can suspend a parking place on their own volition.

If a supervisor was there and a CEO was unsure as to whether to serve a PCN--there is something awry.

Mick

Posted by: cp8759 Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 15:56
Post #1398363

I would definitely appeal, although you need to drop this BS about the cones not being there, we can all see that cones are visible in all three pictures. Your best bet is putting the burden on the council to prove that the suspension had lawfully been put into effect.

Posted by: saynotopcn Thu, 19 Jul 2018 - 17:31
Post #1400456

Hi everyone and thanks for your replies,

Sorry it has taken a while for me to get back to you.

Also, apologies if I wasn't clear about the cones before (and the misleading captions for the photos!), there were cones all along the street but a section of around three car lengths outside the chip shop where there were not any present and the red sign displayed in the chip shop window saying "Chip Shop Parking Only". Thus leading me to believe that it would be okay to park there. It was only whilst I was in the shop a cone appeared at the sides of the vehicle - There is no way I could have manoeuvred the truck into that space had the cones been there to begin with!

Big Mac, Didn't mean to make it look like they were cropped (if that was my intention, I'd have totally removed them by cropping whilst blanking faces etc.) just genuinely didn't even notice they had appeared when I took the photo!


DD, the double yellows must still have been there when the Streetview image was taken but they've now been burnt off and parking bays put in place. Are you saying that for the contravention code to be "01", the council would have to obtain a Tempory Traffic Order?

Mad Mick, would that be a Section 14 Order under the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984? Who would the council have to obtain this from?

Would I first appeal the ticket and ask the Council to provide a copy of the traffic order applicable at the same time or make the request for the copy before starting the appeal?

As the CEO was wearing a video and sound recording device, am I entitled to ask for a copy of the footage from this also?

Thanks again for all your input here guys!

Posted by: cp8759 Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 17:42
Post #1400832

Yes you can ask for a copy of the CCTV. The Council would make the order under section 14, if that was done they should be able to provide a copy.

Posted by: hcandersen Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 21:18
Post #1400888

Straight bat.

Simple facts.

Don’t go off asking the world and his wife for info.

State the facts.

I parked at the location which is a marked parking place subject to a restriction of 1 hour’s free parking between the hours of 8am and 6pm Mon-Sat.

The alleged contravention is for parking in a restricted street at 5.37pm on Wed 11 July.

This is obviously inconsistent with the prevailing marked and signed restriction and therefore unless the authority can prove that this restriction was disapplied at that time and that a waiting restriction was in place then the contravention did not occur and the PCN must be cancelled.

This burden lies with the authority.

At the time, I noticed some yellow cones in the vicinity of the location, however, on their own and unless placed by the police they have no effect unless there is an underlying temporary traffic order. Consequently, if the authority assert that the parking place restriction had been suspended and replaced by one which restricted waiting then they must as a minimum:
Provide copies of the order; and
State where and when the mandatory notices were placed pursuant to the Temporary Traffic Orders Procedure Regs.


Posted by: cp8759 Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 22:35
Post #1400912

I agree with hcandersen, submit what he suggests. But separately also ask for the CCTV, it may be useful later on and asking for it won't hurt.

Posted by: cp8759 Sun, 29 Jul 2018 - 20:43
Post #1403497

Also upload the back of the PCN.

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