PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice Support health workers

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Sussex Safety Camera Unit admin issues cost me £££'s
MrGuy71
post Tue, 20 Feb 2018 - 23:03
Post #1


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 5
Joined: 20 Feb 2018
Member No.: 96,671



Back in the late summer of 2017 I was rushing along the south coast to deliver my sons passport when I pinged a camera doing allegedly 83 in a national (dual carriageway). Now I don't have a major problem with that as I know I was speeding. Now, because I had just moved house due to being in the middle of getting a divorce and the fact that I had not got around to changing the information on the V5, the NIP was sent to the correct address in terms of the V5 but obviously I wasn't there. Eventually my soon to be ex wife did open the letter and scanned and emailed the S172 to me on the day it was supposed to be returned to the SSR unit. I called them, explained the circumstances, they were understanding and told me they would allow another week for me to submit the completed form. I gave them my current address verbally during the call. I completed the S172 with my new address. They also told me I could scan and email it to them which I duly did. I reiterated my new address within the text of the email which contained the form with my new address on. I received an email stating that my file had been updated with my new address (can you guess where we are headed with this yet?) I also paid the £100 fine the same evening. A couple days later I posted my license to the address they gave me. Now I have had points before and it suddenly struck me that it was taking a long time to go through the process but didn't get around to calling them to see what the hold up was.

To cut a long story short, in early January I received a SJPN and a refund of my paid fine so I called the SSR unit to enquire why this was. They said 'you haven't sent us your license' Yes I have, I replied. No you haven't they said, this went on until I pointed to that it was entirely possible that I had sent my license but they hadn't received it, but I digress. Well we sent you a reminder on November 5th, they said. I never received that, where did you send it? I asked. To ...... my old address. Well I don't live there and I told you that and you responded saying thank you for the updated info, your file has been updated, I said. Nothing we can do at this point, they said, just fill in the form and hope the court is sympathetic.

So I go online to make a plea.gov.uk. I explain the series of events that lead us there. The court seemed to agree that I had made every effort to deal with the process properly and awarded (is that the correct term?) 3 points and imposed a fine of £100, just the same as if the Fixed Penalty scheme process had worked. They also charged me £85 costs and a further £30 Victim Support surcharge so £215 in total, more than double the actual fine amount alone.

So, after all of that, can I take the Sussex Safer Roads Unit to a small claims court to recover the additional £115 costs that I have incurred as a consequence of them being unable to manage their information storage systems? I do know that it'll only cost me approx £40 to lodge a claim but I am self employed and do not want to unnecessarily lose a days billing. any advice would be welcome even if it's to tell me I'm being stupid.

Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached Image
 
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 16)
Advertisement
post Tue, 20 Feb 2018 - 23:03
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
southpaw82
post Tue, 20 Feb 2018 - 23:19
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 33,610
Joined: 2 Apr 2008
From: Not in the UK
Member No.: 18,483



No.


--------------------
Moderator

Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
andy_foster
post Tue, 20 Feb 2018 - 23:20
Post #3


Member
Group Icon

Group: Life Member
Posts: 24,214
Joined: 9 Sep 2004
From: Reading
Member No.: 1,624



QUOTE (MrGuy71 @ Tue, 20 Feb 2018 - 23:03) *
So, after all of that, can I take the Sussex Safer Roads Unit to a small claims court to recover the additional £115 costs that I have incurred as a consequence of them being unable to manage their information storage systems?


No.


--------------------
Andy

Some people think that I make them feel stupid. To be fair, they deserve most of the credit.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
MrGuy71
post Tue, 20 Feb 2018 - 23:22
Post #4


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 5
Joined: 20 Feb 2018
Member No.: 96,671



why not? single word answers are not much help
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
andy_foster
post Tue, 20 Feb 2018 - 23:31
Post #5


Member
Group Icon

Group: Life Member
Posts: 24,214
Joined: 9 Sep 2004
From: Reading
Member No.: 1,624



Ok, you're being stupid.


--------------------
Andy

Some people think that I make them feel stupid. To be fair, they deserve most of the credit.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
MrGuy71
post Tue, 20 Feb 2018 - 23:41
Post #6


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 5
Joined: 20 Feb 2018
Member No.: 96,671



so what are you saying? That I should just suck it up buttercup? any muppet can say no to that question. I have a clearly demonstrable (with emails etc) chain of communication within which they confirmed that they had updated my file and wrote to me at the wrong address then prosecuted me for not responding. I posted on here because I was told I would get a properly informed answer from people who know. I'm not seeing much evidence of any intelligence yet.

This post has been edited by MrGuy71: Tue, 20 Feb 2018 - 23:41
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
NeverMind
post Wed, 21 Feb 2018 - 00:02
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 521
Joined: 15 Oct 2011
From: England
Member No.: 50,387



QUOTE (MrGuy71 @ Tue, 20 Feb 2018 - 23:41) *
I was told I would get a properly informed answer from people who know.
You did. It just wasn't the answer you wanted.

The best you were going to get was a fine at the FP level plus the extras you mentioned

Don't forget it was your own administrative error that started the problems.

If you want tea and sympathy try MumsNet. Here, you just get legal advice. For free.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Logician
post Wed, 21 Feb 2018 - 02:07
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13,572
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528



The first of many difficulties you would face is that the Sussex Safer Roads Partnership had no duty to send you a reminder at all.


--------------------



Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
MrGuy71
post Wed, 21 Feb 2018 - 07:32
Post #9


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 5
Joined: 20 Feb 2018
Member No.: 96,671



QUOTE (NeverMind @ Wed, 21 Feb 2018 - 00:02) *
You did. It just wasn't the answer you wanted.

Don't forget it was your own administrative error that started the problems.

. Here, you just get legal advice. For free.


wow what a clever person you are, I'm so impressed with your insight into my mind.

what I wanted was something like the answers that follow your post. not sarcasm, not single word answers.

It was timing on my part not and admin error. if you had read the OP you would see tat I had 'just moved' due to divorce proceedings. there is no error on my part, just unlucky that the things at the top of my to do list were not necessarily the immediately change my V5.

and as for ...

QUOTE (NeverMind @ Wed, 21 Feb 2018 - 00:02) *
If you want tea and sympathy try MumsNet


really?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Dwaynedouglas
post Wed, 21 Feb 2018 - 08:05
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 96
Joined: 9 Nov 2016
Member No.: 88,346



QUOTE (MrGuy71 @ Tue, 20 Feb 2018 - 23:03) *
I had not got around to changing the information on the V5, the NIP was sent to the correct address in terms of the V5 but obviously I wasn't there.


To my untrained eye, this is the admin error in this instance I'm afraid - you could have set up a redirection from Royal Mail. That you didn't, even after knowing of issues with your mail is your error.

Unfortunately, it would appear that there has been an issue with your licence being received, but as Southpaw and Andy Foster have said (and they are far more learned than I), you cannot take the Sussex Safer Roads Unit to a small claims court in this instance.



This post has been edited by Dwaynedouglas: Wed, 21 Feb 2018 - 08:11


--------------------
I'm not a lawyer or legally trained, my opinion is based on my experience - follow at your own risk.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Wed, 21 Feb 2018 - 08:09
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 41,510
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: Planet Earth
Member No.: 49,223



I presume you are past the point of appeal given the date of required payment?

The sentencing guidance does allow a sentence to match a fixed penalty (with no costs order) if they are convinced the circumstances are appropriate such as administrative issues unconnected with the offence itself.

They usually need a prod to follow this fully.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Wed, 21 Feb 2018 - 08:10
Post #12


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56,198
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



QUOTE (MrGuy71 @ Wed, 21 Feb 2018 - 08:32) *
It was timing on my part not and admin error. if you had read the OP you would see tat I had 'just moved' due to divorce proceedings. there is no error on my part, just unlucky that the things at the top of my to do list were not necessarily the immediately change my V5.

But it is your duty to do it immediately, its a legal obligation (and an offence not to) make sure the address on the V5C is one you can be contacted at, you can change it online instantly. I fully appreciate it may not have been your priority, but its unfair to blame others (except perhaps your ex) that it wasn't. With the correct approach its possible to not have costs added as well, but not always, it would depend on the actual dates involved how liable the court may consider you were. But the legal advice is effectively 'suck it up buttercup' as the court are very very unlikley to consider an application to re-open the case and the odds arent good that you would be better off after an appeal even if you won.

QUOTE (MrGuy71 @ Wed, 21 Feb 2018 - 08:32) *
QUOTE (NeverMind @ Wed, 21 Feb 2018 - 00:02) *
If you want tea and sympathy try MumsNet


really?

Yes, they are really good for that....... and more I'm lead to believe.....


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
southpaw82
post Wed, 21 Feb 2018 - 10:49
Post #13


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 33,610
Joined: 2 Apr 2008
From: Not in the UK
Member No.: 18,483



QUOTE (MrGuy71 @ Tue, 20 Feb 2018 - 23:22) *
why not? single word answers are not much help

Other than for your own edification a single word answer to a closed question such as yours is entirely sufficient.


--------------------
Moderator

Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
bill w
post Wed, 21 Feb 2018 - 11:27
Post #14


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 294
Joined: 8 Oct 2007
Member No.: 14,341



QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 21 Feb 2018 - 08:10) *
But it is your duty to do it immediately, its a legal obligation (and an offence not to) make sure the address on the V5C is one you can be contacted at, you can change it online instantly.


Is that recent? I thought you could only change the registered keeper on line, such as when you buy or sell a vehicle, not the address of the current RK.

Driving licence can be done on-line via Government Gateway.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
MrGuy71
post Wed, 21 Feb 2018 - 13:26
Post #15


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 5
Joined: 20 Feb 2018
Member No.: 96,671



Thanks to all for the more useful answers received this morning. To those who believe a one word answer is sufficient you have a lot to learn regarding human interaction. To those who took the time to explain why they think ‘no’ thankyou for doing so. It seems that all i would achieve is to lose several hundred pounds in lost income and possibly incur costs from the other side. It was never about the money more the principle of the constant inefficiency encountered when ever i have any dealings with any institution funded by our taxes.

Time to move on i think.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
notmeatloaf
post Wed, 21 Feb 2018 - 13:37
Post #16


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 3,306
Joined: 4 Mar 2017
Member No.: 90,659



You could write a grumpy email to the Chief Constable, doesn't cost anything. But the police aren't big on paying out compensation for anything, and unlike other organisations are unlikely to think a small claims form is too much hassle to process.

Unfortunately like plenty of others here you have discovered that SCPs are run like factories now, scan your form when it arrives and let the computer do the rest. As soon as you get out of that system by emailing in forms then you are liable to being factory floor sweepings which eventually are either lost in the system or get sent for court when the deadline approaches.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
southpaw82
post Wed, 21 Feb 2018 - 18:20
Post #17


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 33,610
Joined: 2 Apr 2008
From: Not in the UK
Member No.: 18,483



QUOTE (MrGuy71 @ Wed, 21 Feb 2018 - 13:26) *
To those who believe a one word answer is sufficient you have a lot to learn regarding human interaction.

Oh the irony. Bye bye.


--------------------
Moderator

Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Closed TopicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Friday, 29th March 2024 - 01:09
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.
IPS Driver Error

IPS Driver Error

There appears to be an error with the database.
You can try to refresh the page by clicking here