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VCS County Claim form received, Probably need some help with DEFENCE and other bits
Lape
post Thu, 3 May 2018 - 18:23
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Hello everyone,

More than a year ago, my partner received a letter 'FINAL REMINDER', for parking and not paying on Albert Street, Birmingham B5 5JH. We checked it on googlemaps, and it's a small street with only 4 parking spaces for disabled. He swore, he never even stopped there. We checked VCS provided link for evidence, and the system couldn't find any. So we decided it's a scam and binned the letter.
9 MONTHS later, he received LBC form VCS. We wrote the letter back, denying he was a driver, asking why he never received PCN, requesting for photos and the detailed explanation were exactly the car breached the laws. Reply came a week after. They told us they have sent the PCN, added it's 'copy' and photos, but did't explained where was the place of the 'crime'.
After spending some time on googlemaps, I have realized that Albert street and the the given post code doesn't match. The problem is, there is an actual Albert Street parking, NCP Albert Street car park, and car park that comes under name Albert Street car park, but on internet the last one is showed as Excel, and instead of postcode B5 5JH it comes under address Freeman Street B5 5HT and falls out of the area of the postcode indicated in the letter. It took me a while to find out the ends...
So we came back after holiday and found the Country Claim form and the Particulars of Claim .
* I would like to ask you, would it be possible to win, proving that the Site Name stated in letters from VCS as 'Albert Street Birmingham B5 5JH' is unclear and misleading, because it doesn't say that it's a car park in first place, there is no street address indicated, and the site doesn't belong to that post code?
* One more thing, it's said that the contravention day is 26/04 and issue date of NTK 10/05, which means it's already 15 days gap + days of service. Does it mean they can't legally pursue my partner as a keeper?

This post has been edited by southpaw82: Wed, 30 May 2018 - 20:49
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post Thu, 3 May 2018 - 18:23
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Lape
post Sun, 19 Aug 2018 - 10:15
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Hello again. Our hearing is going to be in the very beginning of November, and it's just about the time to start WS preparations. One question about the documents I've mentioned in my defence. Do I need to print and present the full versions of it? I've mentioned the Parking Eye Ltd -v- Beavis case, it's like 120 pages long.
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Eljayjay
post Sun, 19 Aug 2018 - 15:47
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If you cite cases, it is polite to take copies of transcripts along for the Judge and the Claimant.

For cases like Parking Eye v Beavis, however, I would just quote the relevant bits in your witness statement.

I am pretty sure that judges have online systems that they can access.
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southpaw82
post Sun, 19 Aug 2018 - 22:43
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QUOTE (Eljayjay @ Sun, 19 Aug 2018 - 16:47) *
For cases like Parking Eye v Beavis, however, I would just quote the relevant bits in your witness statement.

He shouldn’t be quoting any case law in his witness statement. Would he be spouting it from the box as part of his evidence in chief?


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Eljayjay
post Mon, 20 Aug 2018 - 00:44
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If it is something like a transcript which he has read and, therefore, witnessed, I fail to see why not.

Additionally, in the event that he was required to spout it from the box, I am sure that any reasonable judge would allow him to refer to the transcript and his notes thereon.
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southpaw82
post Mon, 20 Aug 2018 - 09:38
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QUOTE (Eljayjay @ Mon, 20 Aug 2018 - 01:44) *
If it is something like a transcript which he has read and, therefore, witnessed, I fail to see why not.


Are you for real?

QUOTE
Additionally, in the event that he was required to spout it from the box, I am sure that any reasonable judge would allow him to refer to the transcript and his notes thereon.

The judge might, bearing in mind it’s small claims and there is unlikely to be a witness box. Doesn’t make it right or you any less wrong.

If you don’t know what you’re doing I suggest taking advice from those who do.


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Eljayjay
post Mon, 20 Aug 2018 - 11:15
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I really appreciate advice when it is constructive.

So, instead of simply saying "don't do that", you could say "do this instead".
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emanresu
post Mon, 20 Aug 2018 - 11:29
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QUOTE
So, instead of simply saying "don't do that", you could say "do this instead".


Been covered so many times, surprised you haven't picked up on it.

Witness Statement is for the facts of the case. Skeleton for the applicable law. Only apply applicable law to the bits in dispute as no point in wasting paper on areas where there is agreement.

Further reading

This post has been edited by emanresu: Mon, 20 Aug 2018 - 11:30
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southpaw82
post Mon, 20 Aug 2018 - 15:45
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QUOTE (Eljayjay @ Mon, 20 Aug 2018 - 12:15) *
I really appreciate advice when it is constructive.

So, instead of simply saying "don't do that", you could say "do this instead".

Been said plenty of times.Plus “Would he be spouting it from the box as part of his evidence in chief?” is a bit of a hint as to what can be included.

This post has been edited by southpaw82: Mon, 20 Aug 2018 - 15:46


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Lape
post Tue, 11 Sep 2018 - 19:51
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Hello again,

I'm writing the WS at the moment, and I have one question. I've been re-reading one of the letters from VCS , and in one of the letters it says they rely on Schedule 4 of PoF Act 2012. This is the only one letter that states it and it came a year after the PCN NtK. Does it give VCS a right to chase me as a registered keeper?
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cabbyman
post Tue, 11 Sep 2018 - 20:10
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Only if they complied with the requirements of Sched 4 to hold the keeper liable.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9...edule/4/enacted

VCS, to the best of my knowledge, have never been within a country mile of compliance.


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Lape
post Mon, 17 Sep 2018 - 18:20
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I've just finished the WS. Is it ok for the court or there are things that need to be changed? My bundle will include the Defence, WS and Exhibits, nicely printed put into the folder and delivered to the Court.

P.S it looks nice and tidy in Word format.

In the County Court at Birmingham, Civil Justice Centre, the Priory Courts, 33 Bull Street, Birmingham, B4 6DS

Claim No.: XXXX
Between
VEHICLE CONTROL SERVICES Ltd.
(Claimant)
-and-

XXXX
(Defendant)

WITNESS STATEMENT


I, XXXX, am the Defendant of this matter, the registered keeper of the vehicle in question on XXXX 2017, and will say as follows:

1. The facts of this statement come from my personal knowledge. Where they are not within my personal knowledge, they are true to the best of my information and belief.

2. The claim relates to a parking charge notice (PCN) that was allegedly posted to my former address XXXX.

3. The first correspondence I’d received from the Claimant was a PCN Final Reminder dated XXXX and stating that the driver of the vehicle Reg. No.: XXXX parked the vehicle without payment at Albert Street, Birmingham, B5 5JH. It was claiming that A Notice to Keeper was issued to me, the registered keeper of the vehicle at that time, to which I haven’t replied, demanding a sum of £100 to be paid. (Exhibit 1).
Unaware of any PCN Notice to Keeper, I have checked Albert Street using Google Maps, and I couldn’t remember ever parking on there, as the street is very short and has just a couple of parking lots. The post code B5 5JH identified a different street (Park Street), with no car parks ran by the Claimant. (Exhibit 2). After making some research and relying on inaccurate information provided in this letter, containing no photos of vehicle and the location failing to identify the land the Claimant ran I assumed it was a scam and ignored it.

4. This address, XXXX is the address of my sisters, XXXX, house. She always sends me all my post straight after receiving it, and she assured me it was the only one letter that had been delivered to that address under my name for a last couple of months.

5. The second correspondence from the Claimant was a Letter Before Claim dated XXXX demanding a payment of £160 ‘in respect of a Charge Notice’ that I have never received. There was no reference as to how the terms were breached, the alleged debt had arisen or how the charge had been calculated. (Exhibit 3)

6. Straight after receiving this letter I realized that the previous one wasn’t a scam and wrote to the Claimant asking to identify the relevant land, give more details about the land location and send me the photos of my vehicle taken on a day of contravention. I’ve explained that Albert Street has a different postcode, and the indicated postcode belongs to Park Street, and these two locations have no common borders and none of them has a private land ran by the Claimant. (Exhibit 4)

7. The Claimant responded on XXXX, disagreeing with me about the amount of letters I’ve received. I was provided a ‘copy’ or mock-up of a purported Notice to Keeper, which again failed to identify the land, a couple of ANPR photos without the possibility to determine who was a driver, and no information that could help me to identify the land. It was unclear as well why the Claimant is pursuing me as a keeper if in PCN Notice to Keeper copy it chooses not to use the only applicable statute which would enable a parking firm to rely on ‘keeper liability’. (Exhibit 5)

8. I was forced then to try to identify the land myself. After doing some more research I’ve found out that the land is a car park named as Albert Street Car Park. The official address of this carpark is B5 5HT and it is located on Freeman Street. (Exhibit 6)

9. I drove to this car park and was very confused as the entrance board had a massive Excel Parking Services logo on it, as the majority of the signage boards presented on the alleged site. (Exhibit 7)


10. I have tried to call on a Helpline telephone number, provided on the signage boards and found out that it belongs to Excel Parking Services, not the Claimant VCS.

11. Then I’ve downloaded an official mobile application RingGO, for cashless payment on Albert Street Car Park. According this application the official operator of the mentioned above car park was Excel Parking Services. (Exhibit 8)
I was very confused and couldn’t understand why VCS is sending me letters asking for money, if the operator is a completely different company.

12. The Claimant send me his Particulars of Claim on XXXX. It was a ‘copy & paste’ form that merely provided some basic information, but not how the terms and conditions were breached, nor what contractual authority to operate there the Claimant has. (Exhibit 9)

13. On XXXX I had another letter from the Claimant with a copy of their Directions Questionnaire. The letter was strangely backdated to 26/03/18. It just proved one more time what a robo-claim it is. (Exhibit 10)

14. The Claimant might try to rely on following grounds:

14.1 Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (Exhibit 11), but fails to comply with it as:
14.1.1 The land is not clearly identified.
14.1.2 The indicated sum to recover of £160 is wrong, as the maximum sum which may be recovered from the keeper is the amount specified in the notice to keeper, which the keeper never received.

14.2 ParkingEye v Beavis (Exhibit 12), but fails to comply with it because of the following:
14.2.1 Keeper liability is not established.
14.2.2 The signage of the car park is misleading.
14.2.3 No breach of contract as it is unclear with who the supposed driver enters the contract.
14.2.4 The car park is a paid car park, and only the hourly charge is lost by overstaying.

15. I’m not denying or confirming that I was a driver as it is next to impossible to remember such things almost a year after.
16. The Court is invited to dismiss the claim and to award my costs of dealing with this claim and attendance at the hearing, such as are allowable pursuant to CPR 27.14.

I believe the facts stated in this witness statement are true.

Defendant: XXXX 14/9/2018

Signature:





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emanresu
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 05:07
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You appear to have buried your winning point which is that this is an Excel car park with Excel signs. If you can work in more comments about the Claimant's lack of standing as the contract can only ever be with the company whose name is on the signs.

At 3 why not say "Unaware of any PCN Notice to Keeper, I have checked Albert Street using Google Maps, and I couldn’t remember ever parking on there, as the street is very short and has just a couple of parking lots.. Both Google Street View and the Claimant's paperwork will show the signs and lawful occupier to be Excel Parking Services (Company House number 02878122). There is no clear mention of the Claimant (Company House number 02498820) on the signs

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Lape
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 06:34
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Ok thank you, I will make some changes then. I thought it's going to be enough to show, that everything: signs, mobile app, CS number indicates that Excel runs the car park, not VCS. The thing is that acctual Albert street belongs to Bham city council, not Excel or VCS. This is why we were so confused and thought it was a scam. I have time till the mid of Oct.

There is one more worrying point. The Court said if we want to have an interpreter we need to find and pay for one. I think we could survive without it as I'm more than ok with English language, but when and how should I introduce myself as his wife (we'll be married by that time) and the one, who will talk on his behalf?

This post has been edited by Lape: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 07:01
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 07:45
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You do that at the start. Tak a long a copy of the Lay Rep Act just incase they dont know about it.

I would make the Excel issue front and centre of your WS. Almost lead with it. Make it REALLY clear
Add in that Albert Street car park is also owned by the council, and not the claimant, therefore the locus they have stated is also one they cannot have standing on.
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southpaw82
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 14:01
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Paragraphs 14 and 16 should be omitted. They are arguments that ought to be made to the court by the party or their advocate, not a witness (even if all three of those happen to be the same person).


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Lape
post Sun, 14 Oct 2018 - 09:43
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Morning =) I've just received their 56 pages long WS. Went quickly through it and...well their representative says that I've never contacted them and I never asked to clarify the location, and it's not true, as I did, but got ignored. I've asked to clarify the location and send me the copy of NtK. They sent me the copy of NtK but totally ignored a half page of questions about where the damn car park is. I have a copy of my letter, and their letter acknowledging they got my one.

Do I need to mention in in my WS? I'm going to take to the court on Monday.

By the way, what file folders do you use for WS? my one is going to be like 10 pages long with all the exhibits included.

This post has been edited by Lape: Sun, 14 Oct 2018 - 09:47
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Lape
post Sun, 14 Oct 2018 - 10:02
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.

This post has been edited by Lape: Sun, 14 Oct 2018 - 17:41
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nosferatu1001
post Sun, 14 Oct 2018 - 19:30
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Yes, respond to their WS and point out they're either lying or incompetent. Either way, it suggests the ws should be excluded, unless their witnesss is present to explain these blatant falsehoods.
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Lape
post Sun, 14 Oct 2018 - 19:53
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All printed now, only need to put into the folder and deliver to the Court. I know it might sound silly but when they say 14 days till the court day, do they mean 14 working days or 2 full weeks??? Tomorrow is going to be exact 14 working days (our court date is 1st of November), and if it's 14 working days I'll take a half day off to deliver it to the Court.
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ostell
post Sun, 14 Oct 2018 - 20:09
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14 calendar days, so you might have a few more days.
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