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PCN Duke St Bus Lane Chelmsford - Appeal Rejected!
jpsid
post Tue, 29 May 2018 - 09:53
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Hello All,

PCN received for driving in Duke St Bus Lane during first time visit to Chelmsford. I would appreciate some advice please on appealing as I don't recall seeing any road signs and from a quick Google search there appears to be a lot of controversy about this.

I have attached copy pages of the PCN.

Many thanks in advance.
Jan

This post has been edited by jpsid: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 - 20:26
Attached File(s)
Attached File  PCN.pdf ( 421.59K ) Number of downloads: 119
Attached File  PCNrejection.pdf ( 362.15K ) Number of downloads: 78
 
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post Tue, 29 May 2018 - 09:53
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jpsid
post Fri, 1 Jun 2018 - 16:16
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Although I didn't get any response to my original post on here a few days ago, I appealed online yesterday and received the attached rejection letter today. It would appear that Essex County Council have given the matter some consideration as it's not a standard automated response. However, I would be really grateful if anyone can advise if this is worth taking to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal.

Many thanks
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PASTMYBEST
post Fri, 1 Jun 2018 - 16:23
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QUOTE (jpsid @ Fri, 1 Jun 2018 - 17:16) *
Although I didn't get any response to my original post on here a few days ago, I appealed online yesterday and received the attached rejection letter today. It would appear that Essex County Council have given the matter some consideration as it's not a standard automated response. However, I would be really grateful if anyone can advise if this is worth taking to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal.

Many thanks


Lets see your reps to council and the rest of the rejection


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jpsid
post Fri, 1 Jun 2018 - 16:41
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Hi, Thanks for the response. I have previously attached all the rejection letter (3 pages) and below is my response to council. I don't know whether it is relevant but at this moment there is no video footage to view as evidence, only 2 photos. Many thanks.

I am the registered keeper of the above vehicle and have received the above Penalty Charge Notice.

An appeal to the alleged contravention is being made on the following grounds:

1.The alleged contravention did not occur because there is no evidence in the photos provided by Essex County Council that a contravention has taken place, i.e. there are no road signs or markings to this effect in either photo.

There is no photographic evidence in the photos provided showing the relevant road signage/markings that the driver has allegedly contravened.

2.The driver was not local to the area and had not driven anywhere in Chelmsford before the date of the alleged contravention on 12th May 2018. Weather conditions were wet and visibility poor and low. The driver did not see any signage to the effect that there was a bus lane. Looking online and on Google Street View the photo below shows the same approach taken by the driver and subsequent entrance to the alleged bus lane. The road sign circled in red is a very small sign with lots of small signs/information on it. It would have been impossible for a driver to read all of the information on this road sign while driving, particular given the bad weather conditions at the time of the alleged contravention. The signage was therefore inadequate for a driver to safely and sensibly see and read while driving a vehicle.

(photo attached on next page)

It is also evident from the photo and Google Street View that if a driver did not see the sign circled red (which is the only sign approaching the bus lane) at the roundabout there are no further visible road signs or markings on the approach to drive under the bridge by which time it is too late, a driver has to continue under the bridge at which point their vehicle is captured on a CCTV camera.

There is inadequate and insufficient signage in place indicating the presence of a bus lane.

In summary, the driver is not local to Chelmsford, but lives 90 miles away, was driving in Chelmsford for the first time, so was not familiar with the roads and was navigating their way in bad weather conditions to the Premier Inn in Victoria Rd, Chelmsford at the time of the alleged contravention on 12th May. The driver did not see any road signs or markings indicating a bus lane.

Would Essex County Council please therefore give this appeal proper consideration based on the grounds and the driver’s circumstances stated above? If the appeal is rejected following proper consideration, it will be escalated to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for consideration by an independent adjudicator who has previously ruled in favour of and concluded in the case of Mr Glenn Lushington (PCN issued in August 2017) that “When looking at the area as whole, I am not satisfied that adequate information was given about the presence of the bus gate” and “I find that no contravention occurred.”

This post has been edited by jpsid: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 - 16:57
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PASTMYBEST
post Fri, 1 Jun 2018 - 20:04
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QUOTE (jpsid @ Fri, 1 Jun 2018 - 17:41) *
Hi, Thanks for the response. I have previously attached all the rejection letter (3 pages) and below is my response to council. I don't know whether it is relevant but at this moment there is no video footage to view as evidence, only 2 photos. Many thanks.

I am the registered keeper of the above vehicle and have received the above Penalty Charge Notice.

An appeal to the alleged contravention is being made on the following grounds:

1.The alleged contravention did not occur because there is no evidence in the photos provided by Essex County Council that a contravention has taken place, i.e. there are no road signs or markings to this effect in either photo.

There is no photographic evidence in the photos provided showing the relevant road signage/markings that the driver has allegedly contravened.

2.The driver was not local to the area and had not driven anywhere in Chelmsford before the date of the alleged contravention on 12th May 2018. Weather conditions were wet and visibility poor and low. The driver did not see any signage to the effect that there was a bus lane. Looking online and on Google Street View the photo below shows the same approach taken by the driver and subsequent entrance to the alleged bus lane. The road sign circled in red is a very small sign with lots of small signs/information on it. It would have been impossible for a driver to read all of the information on this road sign while driving, particular given the bad weather conditions at the time of the alleged contravention. The signage was therefore inadequate for a driver to safely and sensibly see and read while driving a vehicle.

(photo attached on next page)

It is also evident from the photo and Google Street View that if a driver did not see the sign circled red (which is the only sign approaching the bus lane) at the roundabout there are no further visible road signs or markings on the approach to drive under the bridge by which time it is too late, a driver has to continue under the bridge at which point their vehicle is captured on a CCTV camera.

There is inadequate and insufficient signage in place indicating the presence of a bus lane.

In summary, the driver is not local to Chelmsford, but lives 90 miles away, was driving in Chelmsford for the first time, so was not familiar with the roads and was navigating their way in bad weather conditions to the Premier Inn in Victoria Rd, Chelmsford at the time of the alleged contravention on 12th May. The driver did not see any road signs or markings indicating a bus lane.

Would Essex County Council please therefore give this appeal proper consideration based on the grounds and the driver’s circumstances stated above? If the appeal is rejected following proper consideration, it will be escalated to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for consideration by an independent adjudicator who has previously ruled in favour of and concluded in the case of Mr Glenn Lushington (PCN issued in August 2017) that “When looking at the area as whole, I am not satisfied that adequate information was given about the presence of the bus gate” and “I find that no contravention occurred.”


No we have two copies of the PCN and one page of the rejection


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jpsid
post Fri, 1 Jun 2018 - 20:31
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I've deleted one of the PCN's and attached another Rejection pdf which should have 3 pages. Thx.
Attached File(s)
Attached File  PCNrejection2.pdf ( 362.15K ) Number of downloads: 55
 
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jpsid
post Sat, 2 Jun 2018 - 09:08
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I have requested sight of the video footage as this is still not available online. Can someone please confirm whether a video is a legal requirement or are the 2 snapshot photos sufficient evidence to prove that a contravention occurred?
Many thanks.
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cp8759
post Sat, 2 Jun 2018 - 09:50
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Section 8 of The Bus Lane Contraventions (Penalty Charges, Adjudication and Enforcement) (England) Regulations 2005 provides, in so far as is relevant:

the recipient may, by notice in writing to the authority, request them—
(i)to make available at an office of theirs specified by him, free of charge and at a time during normal office hours so specified, for viewing by him and by his representative (if any), the record of the contravention produced by the approved device pursuant to which the penalty charge was imposed; or
(ii)to provide him, free of charge, with such still images from that record as, in the authority’s opinion, establish the contravention.
(6) Where the recipient of the notice makes a request under paragraph (5)(m), the authority shall comply with the request within a reasonable time.


If they don't provide the video, they fail to discharge their statutory duties and you could use that as a collateral challenge on the PCN.


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jpsid
post Mon, 11 Jun 2018 - 07:57
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UPDATE:

Video evidence was requested from Essex County Council on 2nd June and the attached letter was received which doesn't even mention my request. A month after the alleged contravention there is still no video evidence on the www.buslanepayments.essex.gov.uk website, which suggests they are either very slow in uploading it or there is none.

With no video evidence, and as cp8759 stated above, if I appeal to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal quoting the relevant section of Bus Lane Contraventions Regulations 2005 is the PCN likely to be cancelled on those grounds alone?

Many thanks.
Attached File(s)
Attached File  PCNrejection3.pdf ( 196.93K ) Number of downloads: 47
 
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PASTMYBEST
post Mon, 11 Jun 2018 - 08:01
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It should and is a very strong ground, particularly as they only offer video on line. But no guarantees


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BLEGG
post Mon, 11 Jun 2018 - 13:34
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QUOTE (jpsid @ Mon, 11 Jun 2018 - 08:57) *
UPDATE:

Video evidence was requested from Essex County Council on 2nd June and the attached letter was received which doesn't even mention my request. A month after the alleged contravention there is still no video evidence on the www.buslanepayments.essex.gov.uk website, which suggests they are either very slow in uploading it or there is none.

With no video evidence, and as cp8759 stated above, if I appeal to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal quoting the relevant section of Bus Lane Contraventions Regulations 2005 is the PCN likely to be cancelled on those grounds alone?

Many thanks.



Dear jpsid,

In my successful appeal (06/04/18) part of the argument I adduced was that I had followed a bus under the bridge (shown on the video), the "BUS GATE" road-painted sign (contained entirely under the bridge), was therefore obscured by the bus as I follwed. If there is no video, there can be no proof that the same situation didn't apply to you. The adjudicator in my appeal found also that even if this road-painted sign is seen by a driver (proceeding towards the PCN camera), it is by that time, too late to avoid passing under the bridge and thereby committing the PCN "offence", because there is no escape route. I am unsure whether the still photos alone are sufficient for ECC purposes, - is there an admission that you drove through the Bus Gate in first stage Appeal / representations to ECC?
You have to consider whether signage has changed/improved sufficiently since my PCN of 22/12/17 - and the dates those changes were made, and whether any subsequent TPT appeals succeeded - all such appeals will be a matter of Public Record.

Good luck.....

BLEGG


QUOTE (jpsid @ Mon, 11 Jun 2018 - 08:57) *
UPDATE:

Video evidence was requested from Essex County Council on 2nd June and the attached letter was received which doesn't even mention my request. A month after the alleged contravention there is still no video evidence on the www.buslanepayments.essex.gov.uk website, which suggests they are either very slow in uploading it or there is none.

With no video evidence, and as cp8759 stated above, if I appeal to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal quoting the relevant section of Bus Lane Contraventions Regulations 2005 is the PCN likely to be cancelled on those grounds alone?

Many thanks.



Dear jpsid,

In my successful appeal (06/04/18) part of the argument I adduced was that I had followed a bus under the bridge (shown on the video), the "BUS GATE" road-painted sign (contained entirely under the bridge), was therefore obscured by the bus as I follwed. If there is no video, there can be no proof that the same situation didn't apply to you. The adjudicator in my appeal found also that even if this road-painted sign is seen by a driver (proceeding towards the PCN camera), it is by that time, too late to avoid passing under the bridge and thereby committing the PCN "offence", because there is no escape route. I am unsure whether the still photos alone are sufficient for ECC purposes, - is there an admission that you drove through the Bus Gate in first stage Appeal / representations to ECC?
You have to consider whether signage has changed/improved sufficiently since my PCN of 22/12/17 - and the dates those changes were made, and whether any subsequent TPT appeals succeeded - all such appeals will be a matter of Public Record.

Good luck.....

BLEGG
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jpsid
post Mon, 11 Jun 2018 - 16:44
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Hello again Blegg,

Thanks for your response. No admission was made in the first stage appeal to ECC - This is what was written:

"The driver did not see any signage to the effect that there was a bus lane. Looking online and on Google Street View the photo below shows the same approach taken by the driver and subsequent entrance to the alleged bus lane. The road sign circled in red is a very small sign with lots of small signs/information on it. It would have been impossible for a driver to read all of the information on this road sign while driving, particular given the bad weather conditions at the time of the alleged contravention. The signage was therefore inadequate for a driver to safely and sensibly see and read while driving a vehicle.

https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http...=mrc&uact=8

It is also evident from the photo and Google Street View that if a driver did not see the sign circled red (which is the only sign approaching the bus lane) at the roundabout there are no further visible road signs or markings on the approach to drive under the bridge by which time it is too late, a driver has to continue under the bridge at which point their vehicle is captured on a CCTV camera.

There is inadequate and insufficient signage in place indicating the presence of a bus lane."

I'm still waiting for details of successful appeals from the Traffic Penalty Tribunal so will chase them but still plan on taking this to the tribunal as a matter of principle as no sensible person would knowingly drive in a bus lane or even a bus gate(?) I wonder if that's even in the highway code as have never heard that term before - We certainly don't have them in Berkshire!!

Thanks again!
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cp8759
post Mon, 11 Jun 2018 - 19:36
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At this point I would definitely appeal to the tribunal. It may well be the responsibility of motorists to comply with all traffic signs, but it's the responsibility of the council to comply with all requests for CCTV evidence under regulation 8(5)(n).


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jpsid
post Mon, 11 Jun 2018 - 21:16
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A very good point!
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