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Newlyn PLC Bailiff advice, Council Parking Ticket
Godknows
post Thu, 10 May 2018 - 14:07
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Hi,
My son has an unpaid council parking ticket from Wycombe District Council going back to May 2017. A letter was hand delivered to our house yesterday from Newlyn PLC saying they had visited our home address with the intent of taking control of goods to the value of £581! I have no idea how this amount has been calculated from one parking ticket and my son has no previous correspondence to hand from either Wycombe District Council or Newlyn Plc. The letter threatens if we do not contact the office immediately they will return to remove our goods which will incur a further fees of £110.00!
We were not aware they were coming on the first visit and they have not given a date for their return.
Please can anyone help?
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post Thu, 10 May 2018 - 14:07
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Incandescent
post Thu, 10 May 2018 - 18:45
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We can help, but you need to post all the documents, suitably redacted (Name & address, car reg no, PCN No). Decriminalised parking and traffic contraventions means the keeper of the vehicle, not the driver, has full responsibility for appealing or paying penalties. So, if the car is registered in your name, you are liable for the bailiff charges.

You really do need to tell us how things have got to this pretty pass, then advice can be given, (plus the documents, of course). Before bailiffs are instructed, you should have received: -

- Notice to Owner
- Charge Certificate
- Order for Recovery

All are sent to the address on the V5 starting around 28 days from issue of the PCN.

Over to you..........

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peterguk
post Thu, 10 May 2018 - 18:48
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QUOTE (Godknows @ Thu, 10 May 2018 - 15:07) *
my son has no previous correspondence to hand from either Wycombe District Council or Newlyn Plc.


Who was the RK and where was the car registered at the time of the PCN issue?

He has "no previous correspondence to hand". Do you mean he doean't have it handy, or he has never received any?

This post has been edited by peterguk: Thu, 10 May 2018 - 18:49


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Neil B
post Thu, 10 May 2018 - 19:13
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QUOTE (Godknows @ Thu, 10 May 2018 - 15:07) *
from one parking ticket

It's two.
One originally at £70 and one at £50.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Godknows
post Fri, 11 May 2018 - 11:23
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QUOTE (peterguk @ Thu, 10 May 2018 - 19:48) *
QUOTE (Godknows @ Thu, 10 May 2018 - 15:07) *
my son has no previous correspondence to hand from either Wycombe District Council or Newlyn Plc.


Who was the RK and where was the car registered at the time of the PCN issue?

He has "no previous correspondence to hand". Do you mean he doean't have it handy, or he has never received any?


Hi,
My son is the registered keeper and the car is registered to our current address. Unfortunately, he hasn't any previous correspondence he can lay his hands on........he has obviously either thrown it out or didn't receive it in the first place (I suspect the former). It was a bit of a shock to say the least when I saw the hand delivered letter from Newlyn plc on our doormat as this is the first I was aware of it. My son went through a spate of thinking he could get away without paying any tickets (some one told he you don't have to pay!!), although he did pay a couple off last month but this has obviously slipped through the net.
So he has nothing to go on apart from the letter from Newlyn.
If he rings WDC can he ask for copies of the letters they have sent? He doesn't have the PCN number either sad.gif
Sorry, we are not making this easy.

QUOTE (Neil B @ Thu, 10 May 2018 - 20:13) *
QUOTE (Godknows @ Thu, 10 May 2018 - 15:07) *
from one parking ticket

It's two.
One originally at £70 and one at £50.


Hi,
Oh he told me it was one ticket? How can you find that info out?
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DancingDad
post Fri, 11 May 2018 - 11:30
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The amount, standard fees and Neil is good at working backwards to check them.

If your son ignored the PCNs and further Notices, only himself to blame and no recourse without lying, the latter can result in a criminal offence so we cannot recommend.

If he honestly did not receive, there is a possibility but likely to end up with him in front of a district judge and will cost.... possibly the same 500 or so quid.

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hcandersen
post Fri, 11 May 2018 - 13:04
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Hold on.

The ONLY person liable is the owner of the vehicle involved, and this appears to be your son.

YOU have no liability. Nothing was delivered to your home, it was delivered and addressed by name to your son who alone is liable. He just happens to live at the same address as you.

None of YOUR goods is in jeopardy if you act correctly.

So: does your son still own the car in question or any other? Where is it registered and parked? This could be in jeopardy as they love to take cars: they're normally high enough value, easily transported and just as easily sold.

Are YOU the owner of the property and could you show this e.g. mortgage, tenancy agrement, utility bill?

Do you or any other resident own a car? Dig out your V5C log books, you could need them.

Is your son's surname the same as yours? And are your respective forenames clearly different and do not begin with the same initials?

Pl just answer these questions promptly.

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Fri, 11 May 2018 - 13:08
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Godknows
post Fri, 11 May 2018 - 13:23
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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 14:04) *
Hold on.

The ONLY person liable is the owner of the vehicle involved, and this appears to be your son.

YOU have no liability. Nothing was delivered to your home, it was delivered and addressed by name to your son who alone is liable. He just happens to live at the same address as you.

None of YOUR goods is in jeopardy if you act correctly.

So: does your son still own the car in question or any other? Where is it registered and parked? This could be in jeopardy as they love to take cars: they're normally high enough value, easily transported and just as easily sold.

Are YOU the owner of the property and could you show this e.g. mortgage, tenancy agrement, utility bill?

Do you or any other resident own a car? Dig out your V5C log books, you could need them.

Is your son's surname the same as yours? And are your respective forenames clearly different and do not begin with the same initials?

Pl just answer these questions promptly.


Hi,
Thanks for your help.
The car in question was a leased car that has gone back to Hyundai. My son was the registered keeper of this vehicle He had it for a year through a friend's employee car scheme. He now owns his own car, which is registered and kept at our home address, which Newlyn are aware of as they addressed the letter to it. Can they find out via the DVLA his current car's registration? I have a leased car, am the registered keeper but do not own it. I can produce a V5 logbook yes.
I am the owner of the property and could prove this with mortgage statements etc
Yes my son's surname is the same as mine, our initials are different



QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
The amount, standard fees and Neil is good at working backwards to check them.

If your son ignored the PCNs and further Notices, only himself to blame and no recourse without lying, the latter can result in a criminal offence so we cannot recommend.

If he honestly did not receive, there is a possibility but likely to end up with him in front of a district judge and will cost.... possibly the same 500 or so quid.


Hi,
Yes I am not disputing he has ignored the parking ticket, just need help to get Newlyn off our back and to only pay what we should legally. Newlyn are all over the internet with their bullying and threatening behaviour and as single mum it has made me feel very on edge being at home in the evening (I work full time). I am aware they can turn up from 6am -9pm. I asked my son if he had received anything previously from Newlyn and he is quite sure he hasn't. He probably did ignore the 3 letters that WDC send out.
I have no intention of lying, I just want to deal with this in the fastest, cheapest way possible. The lesson has already been learnt by my son who is feeling very contrite and scared.
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peterguk
post Fri, 11 May 2018 - 13:42
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Since your son does not appear to deny receiving previous documentation, maybe he should pay up. An expensive lesson in responsibility.

His current car needs to be hidden away as that is at risk of being clamped until the debt is paid.

This post has been edited by peterguk: Fri, 11 May 2018 - 13:43


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DancingDad
post Fri, 11 May 2018 - 13:50
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Possibly, given what you have said, best way is to pay the bailiffs.
The letter you have should detail the PCNs and fees.
If it doesn't, redact personal details and post it to see if we can make sense.
There is a lawful scale of charges, as long as the demand matches, they can charge it.

Phoning council and asking for PCN details may well bring more information, son needs to check no more hanging around in limbo so ask for details of any unpaid against name/reg number.

Pragmatic and not what you want but.....
There is a route to get things reset.
Involves making a witness statement and request for Out of time submission.
Lying on the statement is the criminal bit but the OOT is the part that will likely stuff the reset.
Councils can and usually do object.
When they do, TEC (the Traffic Enforcement Centre in Northmpton) usually reject the application.
Then you have to apply to District Court to explain to a District Judge why you should (or rather son should) be allowed to submit the Witness Statement.
A decision on papers costs about 100 quid.
A personal hearing £255.
Two PCNs, double everything.
Given what you say and suspicions that son simply ignored, chances of a successful application seems limited and chances of getting costs back zero.
If application fails, court costs would still be payable plus bailiffs fees.
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Mad Mick V
post Fri, 11 May 2018 - 13:55
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"My son was the registered keeper of this vehicle He had it for a year through a friend's employee car scheme"

Eh!!!!

Can the hire company cannot pass liability to your son? Was he the signatory to the hire agreement?

Mick
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Godknows
post Fri, 11 May 2018 - 13:58
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QUOTE (Incandescent @ Thu, 10 May 2018 - 19:45) *
We can help, but you need to post all the documents, suitably redacted (Name & address, car reg no, PCN No). Decriminalised parking and traffic contraventions means the keeper of the vehicle, not the driver, has full responsibility for appealing or paying penalties. So, if the car is registered in your name, you are liable for the bailiff charges.

You really do need to tell us how things have got to this pretty pass, then advice can be given, (plus the documents, of course). Before bailiffs are instructed, you should have received: -

- Notice to Owner
- Charge Certificate
- Order for Recovery

All are sent to the address on the V5 starting around 28 days from issue of the PCN.

Over to you..........

Hi,
Thank you so much. He no longer has the car in question as it was a leased car through a friend's employee car scheme. The Newlyn's letter is addressed to my son, not me so I assume he has the liability? I think he was the registered keeper of the vehicle although I may have made the payments for him. He now has his own car which is registered in his own name and at our current address. Will they be able to find out his current car registration?
My son was issued a parking ticket from WDC in May 2017 and clearly ignored it and possibly any subsequent letters from them. He is quite sure he didn't receive any previous communication from Newlyn.
Unfortunately he doesn't have or can't find the paperwork you have asked for above. The only thing he has is the letter from Newlyn which I hope I have uploaded for you (redacted). The letter actually gives very little detail.
I understand (and so does my son) that he is liable for the parking ticket. My aim is to avoid these thugs turning up on my doorstep demanding money that we shouldn't have to pay. They are bullies and threaten to scare and I am a single mum so want this resolved as soon as I can.
Would we be able to ask WDC for copies of the correspondence they may or may not have sent regarding this ticket? I believe they sell on the debt to Newlyn, although not 100% sure.
If I haven't uploaded the file please let me know. This is my work email as I couldn't add my personal one (this site doesn't accept microsoft email accounts) so I won't be able to pick anything up until Monday morning, unless you reply before 5.15pm this evening. Thank you again
Attached File(s)
Attached File  SKM_C454e18051113260.pdf ( 124.96K ) Number of downloads: 20
Attached File  SKM_C454e18051113260.pdf ( 124.96K ) Number of downloads: 16
 
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Godknows
post Fri, 11 May 2018 - 14:15
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 14:50) *
Possibly, given what you have said, best way is to pay the bailiffs.
The letter you have should detail the PCNs and fees.
If it doesn't, redact personal details and post it to see if we can make sense.
There is a lawful scale of charges, as long as the demand matches, they can charge it.

Phoning council and asking for PCN details may well bring more information, son needs to check no more hanging around in limbo so ask for details of any unpaid against name/reg number.

Pragmatic and not what you want but.....
There is a route to get things reset.
Involves making a witness statement and request for Out of time submission.
Lying on the statement is the criminal bit but the OOT is the part that will likely stuff the reset.
Councils can and usually do object.
When they do, TEC (the Traffic Enforcement Centre in Northmpton) usually reject the application.
Then you have to apply to District Court to explain to a District Judge why you should (or rather son should) be allowed to submit the Witness Statement.
A decision on papers costs about 100 quid.
A personal hearing £255.
Two PCNs, double everything.
Given what you say and suspicions that son simply ignored, chances of a successful application seems limited and chances of getting costs back zero.
If application fails, court costs would still be payable plus bailiffs fees.


Hi thank you for this. I think I just want the best route to get this resolved and to ensure we are not being taken advantage of with inflated bailiff charges. I have never experienced this before and reading about Newlyn plc does frighten me as they are bullies and will threaten to get their money. It's that I object to, we are not trying to get out of paying, my son understands the situation and feels terrible (a lesson learnt)for the position it has put me in.



QUOTE (Godknows @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 14:58) *
QUOTE (Incandescent @ Thu, 10 May 2018 - 19:45) *
We can help, but you need to post all the documents, suitably redacted (Name & address, car reg no, PCN No). Decriminalised parking and traffic contraventions means the keeper of the vehicle, not the driver, has full responsibility for appealing or paying penalties. So, if the car is registered in your name, you are liable for the bailiff charges.

You really do need to tell us how things have got to this pretty pass, then advice can be given, (plus the documents, of course). Before bailiffs are instructed, you should have received: -

- Notice to Owner
- Charge Certificate
- Order for Recovery

All are sent to the address on the V5 starting around 28 days from issue of the PCN.

Over to you..........

Hi,
Thank you so much. He no longer has the car in question as it was a leased car through a friend's employee car scheme. The Newlyn's letter is addressed to my son, not me so I assume he has the liability? I think he was the registered keeper of the vehicle although I may have made the payments for him. He now has his own car which is registered in his own name and at our current address. Will they be able to find out his current car registration?
My son was issued a parking ticket from WDC in May 2017 and clearly ignored it and possibly any subsequent letters from them. He is quite sure he didn't receive any previous communication from Newlyn.
Unfortunately he doesn't have or can't find the paperwork you have asked for above. The only thing he has is the letter from Newlyn which I hope I have uploaded for you (redacted). The letter actually gives very little detail.
I understand (and so does my son) that he is liable for the parking ticket. My aim is to avoid these thugs turning up on my doorstep demanding money that we shouldn't have to pay. They are bullies and threaten to scare and I am a single mum so want this resolved as soon as I can.
Would we be able to ask WDC for copies of the correspondence they may or may not have sent regarding this ticket? I believe they sell on the debt to Newlyn, although not 100% sure.
If I haven't uploaded the file please let me know. This is my work email as I couldn't add my personal one (this site doesn't accept microsoft email accounts) so I won't be able to pick anything up until Monday morning, unless you reply before 5.15pm this evening. Thank you again


Also the letter states they will return but not when!! I have been told they charge for every visit whether you are in or not so the charges just keep going up......is that legal?
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peterguk
post Fri, 11 May 2018 - 14:18
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QUOTE (Godknows @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 15:15) *
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 14:50) *
Possibly, given what you have said, best way is to pay the bailiffs.
The letter you have should detail the PCNs and fees.
If it doesn't, redact personal details and post it to see if we can make sense.
There is a lawful scale of charges, as long as the demand matches, they can charge it.

Phoning council and asking for PCN details may well bring more information, son needs to check no more hanging around in limbo so ask for details of any unpaid against name/reg number.

Pragmatic and not what you want but.....
There is a route to get things reset.
Involves making a witness statement and request for Out of time submission.
Lying on the statement is the criminal bit but the OOT is the part that will likely stuff the reset.
Councils can and usually do object.
When they do, TEC (the Traffic Enforcement Centre in Northmpton) usually reject the application.
Then you have to apply to District Court to explain to a District Judge why you should (or rather son should) be allowed to submit the Witness Statement.
A decision on papers costs about 100 quid.
A personal hearing £255.
Two PCNs, double everything.
Given what you say and suspicions that son simply ignored, chances of a successful application seems limited and chances of getting costs back zero.
If application fails, court costs would still be payable plus bailiffs fees.


Hi thank you for this. I think I just want the best route to get this resolved and to ensure we are not being taken advantage of with inflated bailiff charges. I have never experienced this before and reading about Newlyn plc does frighten me as they are bullies and will threaten to get their money. It's that I object to, we are not trying to get out of paying, my son understands the situation and feels terrible (a lesson learnt)for the position it has put me in.



QUOTE (Godknows @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 14:58) *
QUOTE (Incandescent @ Thu, 10 May 2018 - 19:45) *
We can help, but you need to post all the documents, suitably redacted (Name & address, car reg no, PCN No). Decriminalised parking and traffic contraventions means the keeper of the vehicle, not the driver, has full responsibility for appealing or paying penalties. So, if the car is registered in your name, you are liable for the bailiff charges.

You really do need to tell us how things have got to this pretty pass, then advice can be given, (plus the documents, of course). Before bailiffs are instructed, you should have received: -

- Notice to Owner
- Charge Certificate
- Order for Recovery

All are sent to the address on the V5 starting around 28 days from issue of the PCN.

Over to you..........

Hi,
Thank you so much. He no longer has the car in question as it was a leased car through a friend's employee car scheme. The Newlyn's letter is addressed to my son, not me so I assume he has the liability? I think he was the registered keeper of the vehicle although I may have made the payments for him. He now has his own car which is registered in his own name and at our current address. Will they be able to find out his current car registration?
My son was issued a parking ticket from WDC in May 2017 and clearly ignored it and possibly any subsequent letters from them. He is quite sure he didn't receive any previous communication from Newlyn.
Unfortunately he doesn't have or can't find the paperwork you have asked for above. The only thing he has is the letter from Newlyn which I hope I have uploaded for you (redacted). The letter actually gives very little detail.
I understand (and so does my son) that he is liable for the parking ticket. My aim is to avoid these thugs turning up on my doorstep demanding money that we shouldn't have to pay. They are bullies and threaten to scare and I am a single mum so want this resolved as soon as I can.
Would we be able to ask WDC for copies of the correspondence they may or may not have sent regarding this ticket? I believe they sell on the debt to Newlyn, although not 100% sure.
If I haven't uploaded the file please let me know. This is my work email as I couldn't add my personal one (this site doesn't accept microsoft email accounts) so I won't be able to pick anything up until Monday morning, unless you reply before 5.15pm this evening. Thank you again


Also the letter states they will return but not when!! I have been told they charge for every visit whether you are in or not so the charges just keep going up......is that legal?



Well NeilB has back calculated the amounts so they would seem correct.

Don't believe everything you read. Bailiffs have a difficult job, are highly regulated and their "customers" who have evaded all previous requests for payment (like your son), will always have a bad word to say about someone who won't be ignored or accept no for an answer.


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hcandersen
post Fri, 11 May 2018 - 14:50
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OP, bailiffs are now referred to as enforcement agents. They act pursuant to an order of the court who would NOT have granted the order without giving the owner the opportunity in writing to contest that it should be granted. This letter, like the others, we can safely assume was ignored by your son.

At this stage and after sending at least 3 notices to your son, what would you expect the authority to do? They have an unchallenged right to the penalty, therefore they arrange for the court order to be enforced. No selling on, no behind the scenes malarky, all above board.

Your choices are:
To explain to the enforcement agents that your son lives with you but that none of the fixtures and fittings in the house are owned by him. There isn't much of a second-hand market for used T-shirts and trainers and so there's nothing for them to remove except your son's car. This places him in the spotlight but doesn't turn it off. So they'd want to know how payment would be made. You are not your son's agent and have NO legal standing in this matter. He could authorise you in writing, however.

Box and Cox, duck and dive, do not get back to the agents and hope forlornly that they'll go away. Not to be recommended.

His/your choice. Do not take too long to come to a decision, you are dealing with a warrant issued by the court.

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Fri, 11 May 2018 - 14:53
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Godknows
post Tue, 15 May 2018 - 08:24
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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 15:50) *
OP, bailiffs are now referred to as enforcement agents. They act pursuant to an order of the court who would NOT have granted the order without giving the owner the opportunity in writing to contest that it should be granted. This letter, like the others, we can safely assume was ignored by your son.

At this stage and after sending at least 3 notices to your son, what would you expect the authority to do? They have an unchallenged right to the penalty, therefore they arrange for the court order to be enforced. No selling on, no behind the scenes malarky, all above board.

Your choices are:
To explain to the enforcement agents that your son lives with you but that none of the fixtures and fittings in the house are owned by him. There isn't much of a second-hand market for used T-shirts and trainers and so there's nothing for them to remove except your son's car. This places him in the spotlight but doesn't turn it off. So they'd want to know how payment would be made. You are not your son's agent and have NO legal standing in this matter. He could authorise you in writing, however.

Box and Cox, duck and dive, do not get back to the agents and hope forlornly that they'll go away. Not to be recommended.

His/your choice. Do not take too long to come to a decision, you are dealing with a warrant issued by the court.


Hi,
Thanks for the sound advice and I take on board and agree with all you say. I have had a few people tell me the bullying and threatening tactics that Newlyn employ to get results and it is that behaviour that has driven me to panic. No dispute he should not have ignored the parking and of course I was totally unaware so couldn't confront him. I just wanted to ensure that the charges are correct and to know our rights in terms of protecting my home.
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Neil B
post Wed, 16 May 2018 - 10:36
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QUOTE (Godknows @ Tue, 15 May 2018 - 09:24) *
I just wanted to ensure that the charges are correct

As I said, they are if there were two PCNs.
The Newlyn notice only mentions one contravention date and description; matching a £70 penalty.

The total amount asked by the bailiff means there was another, for £50.
Your first action is to ask WDC what this is about.

-----
£581 breakdown.

PCN £70 + 50% for non-payment = £105 + £8 Court fee + £75 bailiff compliance fee + £235 enforcement fee = £423

PCN £50 + 50% for non-payment = £75 + £8 Court fee + £75 bailiff compliance fee = £158


http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2014/1/contents/made

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/1894/contents/made



--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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hcandersen
post Wed, 16 May 2018 - 11:06
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But the OP has no standing, therefore IMO the authority and enforcement agents should not and would be within their rights to not discuss with the OP.

Your son is going to have to put his head above the parapet at some stage because you cannot act for him unless he authorises you in writing in this regard and this authority is accepted by the parties concerned.

The clock ticketh and will continue.

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Wed, 16 May 2018 - 11:07
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Neil B
post Wed, 16 May 2018 - 11:38
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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Wed, 16 May 2018 - 12:06) *
But the OP has no standing, therefore IMO the authority and enforcement agents should not and would be within their rights to not discuss with the OP.

Your son is going to have to put his head above the parapet at some stage because you cannot act for him unless he authorises you in writing in this regard and this authority is accepted by the parties concerned.

The clock ticketh and will continue.

I shall be appropriately blunt.
QUOTE (Godknows @ Tue, 15 May 2018 - 09:24) *
I just wanted to ensure that the charges are correct


and
QUOTE (hcandersen @ Wed, 16 May 2018 - 12:06) *
IMO the authority and enforcement agents should not and would be within their rights to not discuss with the OP.

Edit. Oh come on, the OP isn't stupid: If they don't realise who has right of contact then they'll find out quickly
and adjust as necessary.

Form and contents of notice
7. Notice of enforcement must be given in writing, and must contain the following information—
(a)the name and address of the debtor;
(b)the reference number or numbers;
©the date of notice;
(d)details of the court judgment or order or enforcement power by virtue of which the debt is enforceable against the debtor;
(e)the following information about the debt—
(i)sufficient details of the debt to enable the debtor to identify the debt correctly;


A simple desire to understand what you are paying for and confirming that the amount demanded is both legal and
correct, seems not only reasonable but prudent.

This post has been edited by Neil B: Wed, 16 May 2018 - 11:42


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Godknows
post Wed, 16 May 2018 - 16:03
Post #20


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QUOTE (Neil B @ Wed, 16 May 2018 - 11:36) *
QUOTE (Godknows @ Tue, 15 May 2018 - 09:24) *
I just wanted to ensure that the charges are correct

As I said, they are if there were two PCNs.
The Newlyn notice only mentions one contravention date and description; matching a £70 penalty.

The total amount asked by the bailiff means there was another, for £50.
Your first action is to ask WDC what this is about.

-----
£581 breakdown.

PCN £70 + 50% for non-payment = £105 + £8 Court fee + £75 bailiff compliance fee + £235 enforcement fee = £423

PCN £50 + 50% for non-payment = £75 + £8 Court fee + £75 bailiff compliance fee = £158


http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2014/1/contents/made

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/1894/contents/made



Many thanks for explaining how the costs are broken down. At least I can see how the charges have been accrued.
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