PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice Support health workers

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

can you get booked by traffic warden parking on footpath
LCCFC
post Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 10:07
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 14
Joined: 12 Jul 2018
Member No.: 98,851



Hi All,
I just wanted to know, if you can parked your car or van on the footpath on 4 wheels, as you are driving from the road to the footpath, so your car or van will be driven up the kerb and the car is away from Double yellow lines.

Who can book your car, can Traffic warden book your car or is it the Police, as i was reading through the website , it is classed an obstruction, so Only Police can book you and NOT the traffic warden.

Once the car are parked on the footpath, there is plenty of room to pass for Wheelchair user , Buggy/Pram and also the Disable buggy. The footpath is very large even when the car or van parked, there is still ample of space to go through.

Please can you clarify if this is correct or not .

This is Lancashire County Council, which the Traffic warden are employed.

This post has been edited by LCCFC: Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 10:09
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached Image
Attached Image
Attached Image
Attached Image


Attached Image
Attached Image
Attached Image
 
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 19)
Advertisement
post Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 10:07
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
stamfordman
post Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 10:14
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 23,582
Joined: 12 Feb 2013
From: London
Member No.: 59,924



yellow lines extend to property boundary so you can be done for a code 01 contravention.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
DancingDad
post Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 10:20
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 25,726
Joined: 28 Jun 2010
From: Area 51
Member No.: 38,559



If alongside yellow lines, even on footway, the yellow lines apply.... so council PCN is possible and would be valid.
Otherwise, outside London needs to be a footway contravention and relevant signs present to enforce.
If police get involved (which does happen occasionally) they can issue an FPN for unnecessary obstruction or charge with leaving the vehicle in a dangerous place (happened local to me recently)
The latter worth 3 points as well as any fine.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
LCCFC
post Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 12:20
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 14
Joined: 12 Jul 2018
Member No.: 98,851



Thank you for your reply.
Double yellow lines is along side of the Kerb.

This is another area on the same road. The cars which are parked behind the bus stop stand, it is classed as private land, which belong to the building on the main road , which the cars are parked on their private land. So parking is legal in a another way, where the Traffic warden nor the Police can not do anything. The only thing they break the law is driving on the footpath, where there is Dropped Kerb, so they are driving on the highway footpath and then leave their car on the private land, but the Police and the traffic Warden do not bother about this.

Where the cars are parked on the footpath they only get booked by traffic warden, as this is classed as Highway, even though it is not causing any problem to the member of public, unless if you break your garden wall and park your car inside your garden , So then they can not book you, even though you have driven from the highway footpath and parked on the private land , as some of the residents have made illegal drive, where they have not applied for Dropped kerb and been parking over 20 years and some residents did it few years ago.

Council plays a blind eye, unless if somebody complaints, which you need to inform the enforcement team.

This post has been edited by LCCFC: Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 12:25
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached Image
Attached Image
Attached Image
Attached Image


Attached Image
Attached Image
Attached Image
 
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
peterguk
post Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 12:26
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13,735
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Member No.: 14,720



QUOTE (LCCFC @ Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 13:20) *
The cars which are parked behind the bus stop stand, it is classed as private land, which belong to the building on the main road , which the cars are parked on their private land. So parking is legal..

Sorry. It is accessable to the public, so you are incorrect.

This post has been edited by peterguk: Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 12:27


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
LCCFC
post Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 12:35
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 14
Joined: 12 Jul 2018
Member No.: 98,851



Hi Peter,
But they never get booked, where the car is parked behind bus stop it is not included in the Highway, if they parked near the bus stop or in front of the bus stop, where there is NO bus stand , then yes they will get booked, as they are parked on the highway footpath

i see it everyday and they dont get booked, if parked behind the bus stand and also others who are parking in their garden, they dont get booked, as the car is parked on private land, even though they are driving illegally on the highway footpath to drive on the private land for example their front Garden..
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
stamfordman
post Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 12:38
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 23,582
Joined: 12 Feb 2013
From: London
Member No.: 59,924



What happens today is no guarantee something else won't happen tomorrow. We often see councils doing a blitz on pavement and verge parking, probably because people have complained.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 12:38
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PASTMYBEST
post Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 12:43
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26,655
Joined: 6 Nov 2014
Member No.: 74,048



A bus stop is likely marked by a broad yellow line and is a no stopping restriction that applies to the yellow box marked on the carriageway. Though that has gone both ways at adjudication.

Where yellow lines control the restriction it applies to the whole of the road from centre of the carriageway up to the property line. The legal test for liability is not public or private land, but do the public have unfettered access to pass over the land.
From the photos this is the case here, so yes you could get a PCN but for parking on a restricted road not parking on the pavement


--------------------
All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
LCCFC
post Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 14:21
Post #9


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 14
Joined: 12 Jul 2018
Member No.: 98,851



I agree Peter, as everyday is not the same and it has happened, where you get traffic warden comes regular to book the offender and then you dont see them for few weeks or even for months.
Like you said if someone complains , then they will send traffic warden.

They will not park on the land, where the public does not need to have the access more often, as they use the Public highway footpath, so the majority public will complain. I have sent Pictures to the council and they are not interested at all, as there has been lot of illegal drive and i have sent you images where you see these people are driving illegally on the public highway footpath and towards their building or house garden or private land, where the public/ Staff/ resident needs this constant use.

I have the below link which you can see the road layout.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.7686093,-...3312!8i6656

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
DastardlyDick
post Sat, 14 Jul 2018 - 08:31
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,860
Joined: 12 May 2012
Member No.: 54,871



As stated above, if private land is public!y accessible, vehicles on it can be ticketed (search for Dawood vs Camden) but it is very often Council policy that they don't. There is also an argument that CEOs cannot go onto private land to serve a PCN as they have no right of implied access, but I don't know if that has ever been tested in Court.
Moving Traffic Offences such as you desribe, are very much a Police matter, but these days with budgets being cut and officers having quite enough to do on "core business" it's not a high priority.

This post has been edited by DastardlyDick: Sat, 14 Jul 2018 - 08:41
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
DancingDad
post Sat, 14 Jul 2018 - 08:40
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 25,726
Joined: 28 Jun 2010
From: Area 51
Member No.: 38,559



QUOTE (DastardlyDick @ Sat, 14 Jul 2018 - 09:31) *
There is also an argument that CEOs cannot go onto private land to serve a PCN as they have no right of implied access, but I don't know if that has ever been tested in Court.


If the land is publicly accessible, there is nothing to stop a CEO wandering onto it any more then a member of the public.
If it only has implied right of access such as postman can walk up your driveway, there is no public access so more debatable.
Usually only arises when vehicles are parked half in drive and half on footway. We've seen the debate avoided by CEOs sticking the PCN on the back screen.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
DastardlyDick
post Sun, 15 Jul 2018 - 15:58
Post #12


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,860
Joined: 12 May 2012
Member No.: 54,871



QUOTE (DancingDad @ Sat, 14 Jul 2018 - 09:40) *
QUOTE (DastardlyDick @ Sat, 14 Jul 2018 - 09:31) *
There is also an argument that CEOs cannot go onto private land to serve a PCN as they have no right of implied access, but I don't know if that has ever been tested in Court.


If the land is publicly accessible, there is nothing to stop a CEO wandering onto it any more then a member of the public.
If it only has implied right of access such as postman can walk up your driveway, there is no public access so more debatable.
Usually only arises when vehicles are parked half in drive and half on footway. We've seen the debate avoided by CEOs sticking the PCN on the back screen.


Dancing, you are of course correct - I should have added "or whether this is Council policy I don't know".
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
LCCFC
post Mon, 16 Jul 2018 - 14:23
Post #13


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 14
Joined: 12 Jul 2018
Member No.: 98,851



Well technically it is Private land, once you are in your private land area, which could be your front Garden and as long the car does not stick out on the Highway it is ok. They have never ever got booked , as lived here over 40 Years. Council do not Bother and plays a blind eye, They only book people who are parked on Double yellow lines or if they have parked on the Highway footpath 2 wheels or wheels due to Double yellow lines.

Once they have parked on the private land, they don’t booked them, realistically if there is NO dropped kerb, then they are legally not allowed to drive on the Highway footpath to park their vehicle, as they need planning permission to drive on the highway footpath. Planning Dept and the County council do not care, as they know about it, but they don’t take any action, just play blind eye.

Some of them use the crossing dropped kerb near the traffic lights and then park in the front garden or the medical centre staff parks in their private land, by using the Crossing dropped Kerb or sometimes just mount the kerb and then drive on the medical centre private land. They have never ever got booked nor the council do anything about it. There is No Parking for them and I just don’t know how they approved the planning.

There are some road in our area, where they are allowed to park in their drive, but some of the cars are slightly sticking out and they are never full 100% car in the drive, but this was granted over 30-45 years ago. So again this is legal. This matter is different The postman/Woman who need to use the land, they can not be ticketed, as the driveway was approved by the Council, it only concerns for illegally drive, where they have not granted planning.

There is right of access to the Postman, Milkman, visitors, , but again this is in the private land owned by the owner and NOT the council and the owner thinks, as long i parked my car away from Highway and into my property, they can not issue PCN even though they have applied for permission.

I know it is wrong to mount the kerb illegally and then drive on the footpath and then into your private garden/ Driveway, but on this road now lot of the resident starting doing this.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
LCCFC
post Mon, 16 Jul 2018 - 14:36
Post #14


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 14
Joined: 12 Jul 2018
Member No.: 98,851



Just read through Dr Richard Dawood and Camden and they made him pay for all the PCN and took him to Court. This article was published in 2009

It may be LCC do not bother and Camden council took it seriously due to Main city of London.

Looking at the image, there was plenty space for the public member to pass through, but again they look at it differently meaning you can not park there, as it public access.

This Medical centre on our road they are always parking and the council or the traffic warden does do anything about it and it is blind spot when you reversing out of the private land.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Mon, 16 Jul 2018 - 15:35
Post #15


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 38,006
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



QUOTE (LCCFC @ Mon, 16 Jul 2018 - 15:23) *
Once they have parked on the private land, they don’t booked them, realistically if there is NO dropped kerb, then they are legally not allowed to drive on the Highway footpath to park their vehicle, as they need planning permission to drive on the highway footpath.
...
I know it is wrong to mount the kerb illegally and then drive on the footpath and then into your private garden/ Driveway, but on this road now lot of the resident starting doing this.

You are mis-informed You are allowed to mount the kerb to access private land, see section 34(4) of the Road Traffic Act 1988:

"It is not an offence under this section to drive a mechanically propelled vehicle on any land within fifteen yards of a road, being a road on which a motor vehicle may lawfully be driven, for the purpose only of parking the vehicle on that land."

Nowhere does it say there needs to be a dropped kerb.


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
LCCFC
post Mon, 16 Jul 2018 - 16:43
Post #16


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 14
Joined: 12 Jul 2018
Member No.: 98,851



QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 16 Jul 2018 - 16:35) *
QUOTE (LCCFC @ Mon, 16 Jul 2018 - 15:23) *
Once they have parked on the private land, they don’t booked them, realistically if there is NO dropped kerb, then they are legally not allowed to drive on the Highway footpath to park their vehicle, as they need planning permission to drive on the highway footpath.
...
I know it is wrong to mount the kerb illegally and then drive on the footpath and then into your private garden/ Driveway, but on this road now lot of the resident starting doing this.

You are mis-informed You are allowed to mount the kerb to access private land, see section 34(4) of the Road Traffic Act 1988:

"It is not an offence under this section to drive a mechanically propelled vehicle on any land within fifteen yards of a road, being a road on which a motor vehicle may lawfully be driven, for the purpose only of parking the vehicle on that land."

Nowhere does it say there needs to be a dropped kerb.



So you can mount the kerb to drive your car to your private land, but can you still get booked, as Dr Richard Dawood got booked or it depend on the local authority and the traffic warden i presume.

see image of the Dawood parking his moped and this the same thing which the Medical centre is parking and also other resident who lives by the Vicinity.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached Image
 
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Mon, 16 Jul 2018 - 16:52
Post #17


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 38,006
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



QUOTE (LCCFC @ Mon, 16 Jul 2018 - 17:43) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 16 Jul 2018 - 16:35) *
QUOTE (LCCFC @ Mon, 16 Jul 2018 - 15:23) *
Once they have parked on the private land, they don’t booked them, realistically if there is NO dropped kerb, then they are legally not allowed to drive on the Highway footpath to park their vehicle, as they need planning permission to drive on the highway footpath.
...
I know it is wrong to mount the kerb illegally and then drive on the footpath and then into your private garden/ Driveway, but on this road now lot of the resident starting doing this.

You are mis-informed You are allowed to mount the kerb to access private land, see section 34(4) of the Road Traffic Act 1988:

"It is not an offence under this section to drive a mechanically propelled vehicle on any land within fifteen yards of a road, being a road on which a motor vehicle may lawfully be driven, for the purpose only of parking the vehicle on that land."

Nowhere does it say there needs to be a dropped kerb.



So you can mount the kerb to drive your car to your private land, but can you still get booked, as Dr Richard Dawood got booked or it depend on the local authority and the traffic warden i presume.

see image of the Dawood parking his moped and this the same thing which the Medical centre is parking and also other resident who lives by the Vicinity.

It depends on whether you put a barrier between the property and the road.


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
LCCFC
post Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 15:34
Post #18


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 14
Joined: 12 Jul 2018
Member No.: 98,851



Hi cp8759,
It will not have a barrier , it will be open , otherwise it will restrict the movment and make it difficult to park due to limited space.

It will be same as the pictures i have sent.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
notmeatloaf
post Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 16:17
Post #19


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 3,306
Joined: 4 Mar 2017
Member No.: 90,659



In simple terms (however it is a complex area) highways arent defined by who owns the land, they are defined either by the public using them to pass and repass, or because a highway authority defines them.

That is why you often see at the entrance to hospitals and the like that there is no public right of way on the roads.

So even if you own the land you can still get a parking ticket. The likelihood of it happening depends on how hot your local authority is about it, how likely it is a neighbour complains, and whether your parking and any overhang ends up blocking or hindering pedestrians.

The safest way would be to get in writing that the highway authority does not consider it highway if they are prepared to do that. Otherwise worst case scenario is you get a ticket and either take it to adjudication or find somewhere else to park.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
LCCFC
post Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 16:54
Post #20


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 14
Joined: 12 Jul 2018
Member No.: 98,851



Thanks notmeatloaf.

I have asked the question to the LCC highway and see what is their outcome and will get back to you again.

Thanks for your replies and advice.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Thursday, 28th March 2024 - 19:19
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.
IPS Driver Error

IPS Driver Error

There appears to be an error with the database.
You can try to refresh the page by clicking here