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Confused by signage-can we park without a permit in the bays?
Zazaa
post Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 10:39
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Hiya,

What does this sign mean? Can we park in a bay without a permit, because I've read it as that way- as long as we are in a bay, we can park there?
I ask, because a PCN has been received now.



There's also this sign:


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post Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 10:39
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Starworshipper12
post Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 10:43
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And the streetview location??

Edit - sorry, posted same time as you provided it!

This post has been edited by Starworshipper12: Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 10:56
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Zazaa
post Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 11:04
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QUOTE (Starworshipper12 @ Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 10:43) *
And the streetview location??

Edit - sorry, posted same time as you provided it!


No worries smile.gif

The signs were near the roundabout on Dock road.
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cp8759
post Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 12:22
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Google street view appears to pre-date the signs. Are there any council pics on the council website?

If there's no signs in the bays, I think it's clear cut that the contravention did not occur.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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DancingDad
post Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 15:40
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 12:22) *
Google street view appears to pre-date the signs. Are there any council pics on the council website?

If there's no signs in the bays, I think it's clear cut that the contravention did not occur.


Rats.

But agree with CP
If no signs on the bays, you simply complied with the sign and parked in a marked (but not signed) bay.
Exactly what the sign said to do.

In the opening post you showed two signs.
One the entry sign which it would seem you complied with.
The second one (a repeater) was definitely not in the bay where you parked ??

This post has been edited by DancingDad: Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 15:42
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Starworshipper12
post Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 21:03
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You don’t think perhaps the ‘Except in marked bays’ is an exemption for the few disabled marked bays along this road?

Which means anything not labelled (disabled for example) but marked out with a line, is permit holders only?

QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 12:22) *
Google street view appears to pre-date the signs.


As in this?

https://www.thurrock.gov.uk/public-notices/...-area-phase-2-0

This post has been edited by Starworshipper12: Fri, 15 Feb 2019 - 00:19
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DancingDad
post Fri, 15 Feb 2019 - 10:01
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QUOTE (Starworshipper12 @ Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 21:03) *
You don’t think perhaps the ‘Except in marked bays’ is an exemption for the few disabled marked bays along this road?

Which means anything not labelled (disabled for example) but marked out with a line, is permit holders only?

QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 12:22) *
Google street view appears to pre-date the signs.


As in this?

https://www.thurrock.gov.uk/public-notices/...-area-phase-2-0


That is what council believe and probably mean but is not what the sign says or makes clear.
Signs must make the restriction clear to the average driver who is not expected to have any pre-knowledge of the area.


The entry sign says Permit Holders Only past this point.
A fairly common RPZ sign and one where bays or signs are not needed within the zone.
So the common understanding would be to expect to be able to park anywhere in the zone as long as relevant permit displayed.

Then the lower panel says Except in Marked Bays.
Along with the normal that bays are not needed, this is easily understood to mean that a permit is not needed if a bay is marked.
Perhaps the council accept that visitors may need to park and have marked out unspecified bays anyone can use.
It is a fair assumption.

Then we have Marked, not Signed, Except in Marked Bays.
You do not need to be a parking guru to understand that there is a difference.
A marked bay is simply that, pretty white lines.
A signed bay would have a restriction sign telling everyone what the bay is for.
And is the permitted expression, Signed, not Marked.


This is just pee poor signage, not using permitted expressions and open to misinterpretation.

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