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Speed fine for environmental (air quality) reasons…
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post Mon, 7 Oct 2019 - 15:28
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Hello,

It seems that the Welsh assembly are enforcing speed restrictions due to air quality. Ironically one of the areas is the M4 stretch adjacent the Port Talbot steel works! I may have been caught exceeding the 50mph speed limit along the M4 near the Brynglas tunnels, Newport. My speed would have been approx. 58mph. It was late Sunday night, with very little traffic on the roads, no roadworks, no traffic incident or any other safety reason to slow the traffic. I’ve since found the article below.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-49938080

My questions
1, Is it legal to reduce the motorway speed limit for air quality reasons alone?
2, Can a fine be imposed for breaking a reduced speed limit when no safety or highway code laws have been broken?

I look forward to your replies.
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post Mon, 7 Oct 2019 - 15:28
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The Rookie
post Tue, 8 Oct 2019 - 14:15
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 8 Oct 2019 - 14:56) *
QUOTE (BaggieBoy @ Tue, 8 Oct 2019 - 13:55) *
How would hybrids be treated, since at the time they might be running on electricity or fossil fuel?

I'd say hybrids get treated as IC, the policy direction is all in favour of all electric.

The problem is that 'hybrid' is meaningless, it ranges from a mild hybrid which can't drive on electrical power only through to a electric vehicle with a combustion engine for range extension.
In some use cases those currently have a lower CO2/mile than pure EV's.


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cp8759
post Tue, 8 Oct 2019 - 18:57
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 8 Oct 2019 - 15:15) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 8 Oct 2019 - 14:56) *
QUOTE (BaggieBoy @ Tue, 8 Oct 2019 - 13:55) *
How would hybrids be treated, since at the time they might be running on electricity or fossil fuel?

I'd say hybrids get treated as IC, the policy direction is all in favour of all electric.

The problem is that 'hybrid' is meaningless, it ranges from a mild hybrid which can't drive on electrical power only through to a electric vehicle with a combustion engine for range extension.
In some use cases those currently have a lower CO2/mile than pure EV's.

Doesn't really matter because if you were to only exempt all-electric vehicles from the lower limit, all hybrids would be caught no matter how you described them.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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The Rookie
post Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 08:36
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 8 Oct 2019 - 19:57) *
Doesn't really matter because if you were to only exempt all-electric vehicles from the lower limit, all hybrids would be caught no matter how you described them.

Well I think the point is that it does matter, as you'll be exempting some cars while not exempting others that are just as clean (and may actually be cleaner).....wrong message!


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cp8759
post Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 10:33
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 09:36) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 8 Oct 2019 - 19:57) *
Doesn't really matter because if you were to only exempt all-electric vehicles from the lower limit, all hybrids would be caught no matter how you described them.

Well I think the point is that it does matter, as you'll be exempting some cars while not exempting others that are just as clean (and may actually be cleaner).....wrong message!

Well we already do that, as all-electric vehicles already get more favourable tax treatment than hybrids.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 10:33


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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The Rookie
post Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 20:38
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Vehicles are taxed on results, until recently Plug in Hybrids did indeed get the same perks as EVs, but not other hybrids. So not a good simili.


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Fredd
post Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 20:49
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And now they don't. I don't see what the problem is, perfection isn't a requirement for devising policies aimed at achieving a particular outcome.


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DancingDad
post Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 21:09
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Best argument I've seen yet for getting an electric vehicle..... can ignore speed limits biggrin.gif biggrin.gif
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Charlie1010
post Thu, 10 Oct 2019 - 07:01
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Noise is also a pollutant.
Tyre noise especially from the ridiculously large tyres some people seem to desire.

https://www.oponeo.co.uk/blog/tyre-noise

This post has been edited by Charlie1010: Thu, 10 Oct 2019 - 07:04
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cp8759
post Fri, 11 Oct 2019 - 10:03
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 22:09) *
Best argument I've seen yet for getting an electric vehicle..... can ignore speed limits biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

Well quite. Imagine how the sale of EVs would skyrocket if EV, and only EVs, could do 80 or 90.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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LaughingLeaf
post Sat, 12 Oct 2019 - 17:52
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 11 Oct 2019 - 11:03) *
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 22:09) *
Best argument I've seen yet for getting an electric vehicle..... can ignore speed limits biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

Well quite. Imagine how the sale of EVs would skyrocket if EV, and only EVs, could do 80 or 90.


Yes, until the 90mph drivers realised they could only go 50 miles before charging up!
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cp8759
post Sat, 12 Oct 2019 - 18:32
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QUOTE (LaughingLeaf @ Sat, 12 Oct 2019 - 18:52) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 11 Oct 2019 - 11:03) *
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 22:09) *
Best argument I've seen yet for getting an electric vehicle..... can ignore speed limits biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

Well quite. Imagine how the sale of EVs would skyrocket if EV, and only EVs, could do 80 or 90.


Yes, until the 90mph drivers realised they could only go 50 miles before charging up!

The Tesla Roadster 2020 is meant to have a range of 600 miles at motorway speeds. I think they deem that to be 80 mph so maybe at 90, you'll only get 500 miles of range?


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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The Rookie
post Sat, 12 Oct 2019 - 18:45
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Is that the Tesla roadster that was originally going to be launched in 2015 from the company that was going to have a 1000km Range by 2017 along with a full coast to coast self drive demo.

You need large quantities of Sodium Chloride to digest anything from Tesla!


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