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Unsigned NIP
ktfsh
post Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 12:47
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Hi some questions please re Hire car speeding ticket

just looking for ways to delay any possible ban past christmas as if hitting before then its going to cause problems

the car was a hire car, the speeding was done on 6th sept. hire company emailed the form through on the 23rd sept
sent the named driver off on 24th Sept by email and form attachement
verification of receipt of form and transferal of liability arrived today 9th Oct by email

1. If sending an NIP back unsigned once it gets to the driver, how long would it be before receiving a reminder prompt to sign it?
2. once signing and admitting liability, then how long do the police take to send out either a fixed penalty, an offer, or court notice?
3. whats chances of a ban if no other points on license? it was 103mph on motorway or what could be given?
4. the driver is actually unemployed and being supported by partner so how does that affect any fines?
5. the new NIP will be sent out to the named driver now i assume, so if they only confirmed receipt of the named driver form today even tho sent on 24th last month. how long would that take to get sent out , it hasnt arrived as yet
6. if it goes to a court summons would that mean a definite ban, also would he have to attend or can he plead guilty by post, the court would be 6 hrs drive and if he got banned theres no way he would get home or get the car back. emailed some solicitors for advice and representation and not one has responded !!


thanks in advance





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post Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 12:47
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Jlc
post Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 13:06
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QUOTE (ktfsh @ Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 13:47) *
1. If sending an NIP back unsigned once it gets to the driver, how long would it be before receiving a reminder prompt to sign it?

Unless this is Scotland then that is not a good idea.

QUOTE (ktfsh @ Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 13:47) *
2. once signing and admitting liability, then how long do the police take to send out either a fixed penalty, an offer, or court notice?

That excess won't see a fixed penalty - it can only be dealt with at court.

QUOTE (ktfsh @ Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 13:47) *
3. whats chances of a ban if no other points on license? it was 103mph on motorway or what could be given?

6 points is more likely but a short ban (2-3 weeks) is possible.

QUOTE (ktfsh @ Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 13:47) *
4. the driver is actually unemployed and being supported by partner so how does that affect any fines?

There's a minimum level of income used - I think the current figure is £130 per week.

QUOTE (ktfsh @ Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 13:47) *
5. the new NIP will be sent out to the named driver now i assume, so if they only confirmed receipt of the named driver form today even tho sent on 24th last month. how long would that take to get sent out , it hasnt arrived as yet

Don't quite get the question - but if an unsigned nomination was sent then you may not get a reminder as they may consider prosecuting for a separate offence. But in terms of turning around a driver nomination there is no set time, could be days or weeks depending on the workload.

QUOTE (ktfsh @ Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 13:47) *
6. if it goes to a court summons would that mean a definite ban, also would he have to attend or can he plead guilty by post, the court would be 6 hrs drive and if he got banned theres no way he would get home or get the car back. emailed some solicitors for advice and representation and not one has responded !!

A postal option would be given first - if the single justice wants to consider a ban then they would normally request presence at court.

Yes, any ban is instant - there's always public transport. Or indeed, legal representation can be sent.

But this is unlikely to be heard this side of Christmas. They have 6 months to commence a prosecution and it's often close to that.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 13:07


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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ktfsh
post Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 13:29
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thankyou so much and yeah it was in England but we live in scotland on an island so quite a trek to where the court would be
all the best
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ktfsh
post Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 14:35
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can i please ask, what happens in a genuine case if someone forgets to sign the NIP, would they send it back to be signed and if so how long would that take
thanks
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southpaw82
post Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 15:02
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QUOTE (ktfsh @ Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 15:35) *
can i please ask, what happens in a genuine case if someone forgets to sign the NIP, would they send it back to be signed and if so how long would that take
thanks

They might, and probably would, but they might not. Nobody here can advise you not to sign the NIP, so don’t ask.


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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ktfsh
post Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 15:26
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 16:02) *
QUOTE (ktfsh @ Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 15:35) *
can i please ask, what happens in a genuine case if someone forgets to sign the NIP, would they send it back to be signed and if so how long would that take
thanks

They might, and probably would, but they might not. Nobody here can advise you not to sign the NIP, so don’t ask.


thats ok as i wasnt actually asking anyone to suggest not to sign or otherwise, but simply what would happen if that were the case
and the other questions were about what would likely happen
the aim was simply to stall the process hitting court until after xmas and not to deny liability or plead not guilty
it will be a guilty plea just wanted to delay was all
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Jlc
post Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 15:42
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You can fully utilise the time frames given to you, i.e. respond towards the end of the 28 days.

As I said earlier this is unlikely to be in court this side of Xmas - especially as first stage would be SJPN which is postal process.

They might issue 6 points and the matter is closed. Otherwise, a later date will be given for attendance if the SJ decides that a ban should be considered. (This is the usual process)


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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BaggieBoy
post Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 15:43
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They may re-issue it and ask for it to be signed or they may go straight to a failing to furnish charge, there is no way of telling. Doing this to delay the speeding charge is probably irrelevant, they are likely to wait the full 6 months before issuing the court documents.
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ktfsh
post Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 16:16
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thankyou so much that helps immensely smile.gif
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ktfsh
post Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 19:03
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Hi sorry more questions lol with the SJPN being mention i looked that up
to date progress. the car hire company was sent an NIP, they sent that to us to fill in the driver details and return to the ticket office ( i know they should have done that themselves )

anyways i sent that to the ticket office by attachment to email, they took 13 days to confirm they got it !
i assume now they will send a new NIP to the driver that was named

when we fill that in and tick the i was driving the car bit, what happens then. due to the speed being over 100 would they then send a SJPN out? or could they simply respond with a fine and 6 point thing at that stage and avoid court altogether

if its an SJPN, what does that entail , is that when the case definitely goes to a court for hearing and determination of punishment, or can that too be a case of filling in the forms and then they can come back with a fine and 6 point thing and no court

at what point would we send a mitigation letter? would it be sent that back with the NIP or do we wait to see if he gets an JSPN and then send it with that

hope that makes sense and thankyou

btw this is the first time hes been done for speeding so no other points and why we are completely lost at the process lol

This post has been edited by ktfsh: Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 19:04
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Jlc
post Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 19:27
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They should send you a s172 ('NIP') to also fill out and return.

Upon that they may will either write back and say you are not eligible for a course/FP and the matter has to be dealt with at court or sometimes you'll nothing hear at all for ages.

They have 6 months to commence prosecution from the date of the offence.

In regards to that they'll send you a pack to enter a postal plea (It's possible it won't be sent this year). A single justice reviews the plea and then decides upon the sentence - they could decide that there should be a hearing to consider a ban.

If they decide upon points then that's it - other than to let you know what the fine is. Otherwise, they'll advise a court date.

How do you plea to mitigate? (It's unlikely you actually can)

This post has been edited by Jlc: Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 19:29


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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ktfsh
post Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 19:34
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thats the thing ive no clue about the mitigation if or whether i even need to, can, or should. it sounds like a minefield of what to say or not say also
but i think its prob best just to send the form back and plead guilty at what ever stage and hope for the best
but thankyou so much for all your help smile.gif
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Logician
post Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 22:04
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QUOTE
when we fill that in and tick the i was driving the car bit, what happens then. due to the speed being over 100 would they then send a SJPN out? or could they simply respond with a fine and 6 point thing at that stage and avoid court altogether



The fixed penalty the police can offer you is for £100 and 3 points. they will offer that up to 95 in a 70 limit. for your speed of 103 the case will go through the single justice procedure, and I would guess the single justice will not find it necessary to send it to the full course. but go for 6 points and a fine equivalent to one weeks net income, after your guilty plea.


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The Rookie
post Thu, 10 Oct 2019 - 04:45
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For most speeding there is no mitigation. The best you can offer is an absence of aggravating factors, but unless the police claim aggravating factors that aren’t there that’s not relevant.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Thu, 10 Oct 2019 - 04:45


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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ktfsh
post Thu, 10 Oct 2019 - 08:42
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thanks guys that helps smile.gif
btw it was a van on a bridge that got him speeding

This post has been edited by ktfsh: Thu, 10 Oct 2019 - 08:43
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