PCN Dorset Council, Apparent double yellow lines, no blue badge, passenger is elderly Options

[Judds]

Hey people,

I hate to ask for some assistance, but I literally just got a PCN from Dorset Council and considering the circumstances I'm quite worried.

In short, my mother is elderly and practically disabled and walks with the use of a stick. Here is the sequence of the events:

I drove with my mother as a passenger. When approaching the parking area for the store, we saw there were no available spaces. (see point 1 in pic) I dropped her at the rear of a shop as the ground in this area is uneven (point 2 in pic) and then parked as close as I could to save her walking as she is very unsteady on her feet. To my recollection, there was a car each side of where I parked (point 3 in pic), and I didn't see any double yellow lines (please see the other pic).

I entered the store myself to make sure she is ok as she is frail and I am fiercely protective of her and when we emerged I went to go retrieve my vehicle to pick her up at the rear of the store again as it is safer for her than to try to cope with walking on the sloped ground.

To my dismay, there was a CEO issuing a ticket who said I was parked on a double yellow line and despite my mother (who had to use the trolley as a walking aid and was now in tears) explaining that she is practically disabled the CEO refused to rescind the ticket. I explained that there was no available parking, as the allocated car park appeared full on entry or we would have parked there, so I chose the safest option for my mother. It all fell on deaf ears and was told a fine applied. It appears my vehicle was observed for 7 minutes.

I also showed the CEO as shown in the picture, the double yellow lines weren't quite visible in the spot I parked and that the council has a responsibility to maintain the surface, double yellow lines, signage etc. The CEO replied they don't have to and walked off.

Is there any way I can challenge this successfully? Pics will be attached shortly. Or should I just cough up the reduced fine offer?

Pic links:

https://ibb.co/pzh6bVg
https://ibb.co/4N8Z4j0
https://ibb.co/g3950Vj

Thank you for any advice and assistance.

Attached thumbnail(s)

 

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[cp8759]

Does she have a blue badge? Also show us the back of the PCN in full.

[Judds]

Hi there,

Thanks for your reply. No to the blue badge although my mother is enquiring about that. Here is the rear of the ticket as requested.

https://ibb.co/RbVWGqt

[cp8759]

Is there any medical evidence available about her mobility issues?

The wording on the back of the PCN is somewhat flawed, it didn't happen to be a hire car by any chance?

[Judds]

Hi there,

Yes there is. A list as long as our arms with the GP. Mum is a previous spinal patient and has had spinal surgery in Southampton Gen in 2012. She has varying numbness in her legs and feet, sciatica, walks with the aid of 1 oe 2 sticks depending on how she feels. A knee replacement in 2013.

Also macular degeneration in both eyes which is undergoing regular treatment for the last 3/4 years

Thanks again.

[cp8759]

I think in the circumstances you should ask the council to exercise discretion to cancel. Explain the circumstances about her mobility issues, tell them that the blue badge application has not yet gone through, apologise profusely and ask them to exercise discretion to cancel. Also state unequivocally that you understand you cannot park on double yellow lines unless and until the blue badge has been issued. Send them copies of one or two relevant bits of medical evidence.

[Judds]

Hi there, I will do that. Thank you so much for your guidance.

It was my private vehicle as I am pretty much my mothers taxi which I actually love to do.

Is this of any use at all btw? Link below

https://ibb.co/0MrwbJM

[cp8759]

I would suggest anything that evidences mobility issues, I'm not medically trained and I can only guess that OA means osteoarthritis. Remember the council staff are not medically trained either.

[hcandersen]

And Princes Road is where?

[Judds]

And Princes Road is where?

Ferndown, Dorset.

The ticket says "Princes Road Access Road"

I don't know if there's any significance to the road names?

https://www.google.com/maps/@50.803406,-1.8900374,18.5z

[DancingDad]

Very reminiscent of our RoytheBus v Isle of Shepway…. I'll find a link.
Assisted alighting is an exemption.

Decision in full

Roy Gould v Shepway District Council Case SH05045K

Appeal allowed on the ground that the alleged parking contravention did not occur.

I direct the council to cancel the penalty charge notice and notice to owner.

Reasons:

The PCN was issued on 13 May 2007 at 13:17 to vehicle WX52AVB in Harbour Approach Road Folkestone for being parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours.

This is a personal hearing attended by Mr & Mrs Gould.

Mr gould has appealed because he says that the yellow lines are not enforceable. He has raised other issues concerning the documentation. He says that at the time he parked in order to collect a return fare, He says the gentleman was elderly and suffering from mobility problems. He therefore parked and walked across the road to the market where the fare was waiting in order to help him to the vehicle, to assist boarding and to load his shopping.

I have read the Parking attendant’s notes ans studied the evidence. On the basis of the evidence presented by both parties I find as a fact that:
1 The vehicle was parked on double yellow lines
2 the vehicle was parked for the purpose of assisting a passenger to board
3 The vehicle was parked for the purpose of loading the passenger’s shopping
4 the passenger was elederly and under a disability.

An exemption exists in relation to allowing passengers to board and alight from a vehicle. Whilst that exemption would normally entail the pavement adjacent to the parked vehicle, where th passenger is elderly, under a disability or a minor the exemption extends to taking and / or collecting the person from the address / location ansd assisting them to (or from) the vehicle. It is evident that the part of this process will not take place within sight of the vehicle thus activity will not be witnessed.

Whilst the appeal process has centred on other matters I have elicited the above explanation by way of questioning- I am satisfied that the responses provided are genuine and credible. It is evident in the circumstances had been originally considered irrelevant and thus not explained or explored. A contrary position is in fact true.

Due to the specific reason and purpose for parking a contravention did not occur.

I am in the circumstances obliged to allow this appeal.

James Richardson
Parking adjudicator appointed under s73 RTA 1991.

This post has been edited by DancingDad: Mon, 15 Apr 2019 - 21:36

[Judds]

Thank you. When I organise the appeal, how should I document this reference to Roy Gould v Shepway District Council Case SH05045K?

[rosturra]

I'm not sure that the case mentioned above is helpful.

Roythebus had an exemption as he was parked solely to help someone to board.

The OP says that he accompanied his mother into the shop and they both returned. Not that he left her at the shop and then returned later to pick her up.

Which means that he was parked for more than the exemption allowed (alighting & boarding) as it included a period when he accompanied her whilst shopping.

This post has been edited by rosturra: Tue, 16 Apr 2019 - 00:37

[hcandersen]

IMO, as regards the OP's version of events it has no relevance.

The OP posted: I dropped her at the rear of a shop as the ground in this area is uneven (point 2 in pic) and then parked as close as I could to save her walking..too far with her shopping!

She was shopping, pure and simple.

The OP left the vehicle I entered the store myself to make sure she is ok as she is frail and I am fiercely protective of her
, in other words why was she taking so long to shop?

And 'as close as I could' still meant the OP was away from their vehicle for at least 7 minutes. Either not very close or the OP waited with her in the shop.

The events need to be put in a different way - sorry OP, you've overdone it with the age, frailty etc. words. I prefer the rapier to the shotgun.

If true:
I took my mother shopping ...as I do regularly.
There are normally parking spaces available at the rear of the store, but unfortunately none on this day (other than reserved for BB holders).
I dropped her off.....and then what? You didn't know how long she'd be, or did she mention this? And also, did you actually tell her where you would park(crystal ball) or that you would come and collect her. And if she told you X minutes then you would be at the checkout in X-1 minutes.
Got there, she wasn't ready.

I do not know how she could have arranged to walk unaided to the car if she didn't know where it was.

And a GSV link to where you were when the PCN was issued. I am not convinced this is a road.

Can you pl give us a fuller account of what you said to her and she to you, what actual arrangements you made.

And the council's photos?

And PCN served 15th. You have until 28th to protect the discount. Don't be in such a hurry to fire-off your challenge.

[Judds]

Hi, thanks for your replies.

Sorry if I seem in a rush, I suffer from Anxiety and Depression and it gets me worked up.

To answer the questions as best I can,

There weren't even any spaces in the car park for blue badge holders from my recollection. I chose the spot I parked in after dropping mother right at the rear of the store. There were two cars already parked there and a gap in the middle where it turns out the lines are worn out. I chose this spot as I couldn't see double yellow lines there as shown in one of the pictures.

I didn't inform mother of where I would park as at the time of dropping her off I hadn't decided yet. To be clear,

The drop off occurred, I saw the "space" between the two vehicles, parked, entered the store with a trolley to give to mother as she used it as a walking aid. If I had seen that area was a double yellow line I wouldn't have parked there at all.

I have had no photo's from the council, here is a GSV link as requested. https://www.google.com/maps/@50.8035475,-1....3312!8i6656

On the ticket, it is referred to as "Princes Road Access Road" whereas there is nothing to mention that on GSV? I don't know if this has any relevance.

Thanks again, and my apologies if I seem a little... rushed/hectic, it's the best I can do to manage my own symptoms. Thanks for your understanding.

I'm not sure that the case mentioned above is helpful.

Roythebus had an exemption as he was parked solely to help someone to board.

The OP says that he accompanied his mother into the shop and they both returned. Not that he left her at the shop and then returned later to pick her up.

Which means that he was parked for more than the exemption allowed (alighting & boarding) as it included a period when he accompanied her whilst shopping.

Yes I joined her inside the shop to give her the trolley and accompany her, maybe I am over protective? But having seen my mother fall on many occasions I choose to make sure she is ok.

[hcandersen]

OK.

OP, I scrutinise OPs' accounts because they need to be tested..adjudicators are not stupid.

You parked where you did because
a. You thought it was an unrestricted area, therefore time away from the vehicle for whatever purposes was not an issue, or
b. You knew or suspected it was restricted.

As this account unfolds, it seems it was the former.

You won't get photos from the council, you have to go online and find them:

https://www.dorsetcouncil.gov.uk/parking/pa...rking-fine.aspx

Firstly, are you DV or RD?

And phone them to ask for the photos.

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Tue, 16 Apr 2019 - 12:03

[Judds]

OK.

OP, I scrutinise OPs' accounts because they need to be tested..adjudicators are not stupid.

You parked where you did because
a. You thought it was an unrestricted area, therefore time away from the vehicle for whatever purposes was not an issue, or
b. You knew or suspected it was restricted.

As this account unfolds, it seems it was the former.

You won't get photos from the council, you have to go online and find them:

https://www.dorsetcouncil.gov.uk/parking/pa...rking-fine.aspx

Firstly, are you DV or RD?

And phone them to ask for the photos.

Hi there,

Most definitely A, the former. I also appreciate you and others scrutinising to test. Thank you.

I'll see what I can do about the photo's. Ticket begins DV.

This post has been edited by Judds: Tue, 16 Apr 2019 - 12:27

[Judds]

Here are links to 2 of 8 images. I'll be honest at a glance I didn't see the lines given that it's worn and the other two vehicles but I don't know if any adjudicator is going to believe that.

https://ibb.co/VJxCdtg
https://ibb.co/QcmcBH2

[hcandersen]

Thanks.

But I still cannot locate exactly where you were, the photos are too close-up and do not give a context.

[Judds]

Thanks.

But I still cannot locate exactly where you were, the photos are too close-up and do not give a context.

Hi there,

Is this any more useful?

I have left the cursor exactly where I was parked.

https://ibb.co/HtTggrY