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VCS - regarding a residential parking spot
OneSaidFred
post Wed, 1 Aug 2018 - 18:26
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Dear forum users,

I thought I would share my experience so far, as well as look for some pre-emptive guidance at certain stages which I am not sure about/hesitant. I have spent a lot of time on the MSE website, taking down notes on each stage up to a request to go to court. Here are the key points so far:

1) I am a private tenant in a block of flats in which a lettings agency manages the property on behalf of the landlord.
2) I am allocated one designated parking spot as per my AST (tenancy agreement) - the AST makes no reference to me having to display a parking permit.
3) I was issued with a parking permit from the property management company (who i assume own or manage the lease) a month after moving into the property several months ago.
4) I supplied my reg number to the management company as they said they would not issue a visitors permit (for a handful of bays) without it. I provided it and they supplied it accordingly.
5) I have since been displaying a "permit" in my car for the last few months.
6) The plastic sticky wallet holding the permit to my windscreen fell off (I can only assume due to the hot weather) and landed in the footwell. As I did not attend to my car for the 2 days following this, I arrived to my horror at my car (in my designated spot) with 2 Red/Black cards attached saying "this is not a parking charge notice" from Vehicle Control Services Ltd.
7) Following advice on the MSE forums, I waited for the NTK (x2) to show up.
8) In the last few days I have submitted their appeal template via myparkingcharge website making no mention of any driver and only myself as the keeper and now await for the inevitable rejection.

My questions and concerns are as follows:

A) My tenancy agreement makes no reference to the property management company, VCS or that I have to display any kind of permit.
B) I have never seen, or been made to see, a copy of any lease that the landlord may be subject to, therefore have no knowledge of whether this lease states anything about a permit. Does this matter? Am I protected via the AST?
C) I don't really want to start harassing my Lettings Agent on the grounds that they are in charge of nearly 2 months worth of rent as a deposit, and they could easily start harassing me when I come to leave the property by making minor claims on my deposit etc... Is there any way to leave them out of this or would you say this isn't possible?
D) MSE makes the point of not appealing, when asked to, to the IPC on the grounds of it being a waste of time and a "kangaroo court" - is the court going to look unfavourably if I don't do this?
E) What am I likely to expect from this point onwards and on what timescales?
F) What am I ignoring, and what am I responding to if received? I am aware not to ignore a letter about attending court, but how is this received?

Any help and guidance would be greatly appreciated. The work you people do here, alongside other websites, makes me feel like there is hope for humanity yet...
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post Wed, 1 Aug 2018 - 18:26
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OneSaidFred
post Sat, 27 Oct 2018 - 18:02
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Ok - here is the title:

A: Property Register
This register describes the land and estate comprised in the title. Except as mentioned below, the title includes any legal easements granted by the registered lease but is subject to any rights that it reserves, so far as those easements and rights exist and benefit or affect the registered land.
[redacted]
1: (01.08.2005) The Leasehold land shown edged with red on the plan of the above Title filed at the Registry and being [Address redacted]
NOTE: As to the part tinted blue on the title plan only the Fifth Floor Apartment is included.
2: (01.08.2005) Short particulars of the lease(s) (or under-lease(s)) under which the land is held:
Date : [redacted]
Term : 125 years from [date redacted]
Parties : (1) [redacted], (2) [redacted], (3) [landlord]
3: (01.08.2005) There are excepted from the effect of registration all estates, rights, interests, powers and remedies arising upon, or by reason of, any dealing made in breach of the prohibition or restriction against dealings therewith inter vivos contained in the Lease.
4: (01.08.2005) The land has the benefit of the rights granted by a Deed dated [redacted] made between (1) [redacted] and (2) [Landlord] for a term of 125 years from [redacted].
¬NOTE: Copy filed.
5: (01.08.2005) The lessor's title is registered.
6: Unless otherwise mentioned the title includes any legal easements granted by the registered lease(s) but is subject to any rights that it reserves, so far as those easements and rights exist and benefit or affect the registered land.


Going by this, it indicates the copy filed - as for the OC2 form - I'm struggling to work out what I am to put into section 7 of the OC2 form - is the nature of the document just "Lease" and the date of the document what I have redacted above in bold?

This post has been edited by OneSaidFred: Sat, 27 Oct 2018 - 18:04
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Eljayjay
post Sat, 27 Oct 2018 - 19:25
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I think it is almost certainly "lease" and the redacted date which you need to enter on the form OC2.

If you are in any date, however, the Land Registry would be the best place to ask.
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OneSaidFred
post Sat, 27 Oct 2018 - 20:32
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Great, I'll call them on Monday and then report back once I get the lease.

In the meantime, would quite like to make a start on the reply to the LBC. I have until the 20th November to respond fyi. (I noticed they decided to send me this 2nd class this time as they say "30 days from the date of this letter" - funny that?)
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OneSaidFred
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 18:10
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Ok, I have the lease now. Please can you take a look in the link? (relevant info redacted)

https://imgur.com/a/qrLfDoA

Is this the lease I am after? Page 1/2 seem to mention another lease?
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OneSaidFred
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 18:59
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With regards writing a response to the LBC (not long left now), do I need to mention the lease (see above post #24)/tenancy agreement at all or is this only for building a defence once it gets to court?

If anyone has any up to date letter templates or things I should/must/must not mention in my response, please let me know. Your ongoing help with this has and continues to be immensely helpful and educational.

Thanks
Fred
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Eljayjay
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 20:27
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Generally, one lease covers everything.

In your case, however, it appears that there is a head lease covering most of the obligations and rights of the parties thereto but also the lease which you have posted dealing with parking.

Get the head lease too.

What was the date of the letter of/before claim/action?
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 20:51
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You would of course include excerpts from the lease; you have a duty to narrow the points of disagreement and this does So!

Rights to use the parking space and a right to peaceful enjoyment.
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OneSaidFred
post Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 17:35
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QUOTE (Eljayjay @ Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 20:27) *
What was the date of the letter of/before claim/action?


19th October
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SchoolRunMum
post Sat, 10 Nov 2018 - 16:11
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QUOTE
With regards writing a response to the LBC (not long left now), do I need to mention the lease (see above post #24)/tenancy agreement at all or is this only for building a defence once it gets to court?
Yes. And send a SAR to VCS asking for all info held, all data stored, case updates, shared data and all photos taken on the material dates.

You can find where to send a SAR in any firm's Privacy Page and I'm sure VCS have one on their website. Use email if a Data Protection Officer (DPO) email addy is given.

QUOTE
The plastic sticky wallet holding the permit to my windscreen fell off (I can only assume due to the hot weather) and landed in the footwell. As I did not attend to my car for the 2 days following this, I arrived to my horror at my car (in my designated spot) with 2 Red/Black cards attached saying "this is not a parking charge notice" from Vehicle Control Services Ltd.

OK, those are defendable and as you say, were not a PCN anyway. And you have primacy of contract as a defence argument, because your AST requires no permit to be displayed.

QUOTE
If anyone has any up to date letter templates


Please do NOT be steered into using some misconceived template to a LBC or to rely on just one poster who tells you what to do and when without anyone else's input. You will see too many residential cases on here are currently being steered one way with no eye for detail, no bespoke consideration of the case. Not a good way to respond and it's a serious rash blighting this forum at the moment, IMHO.

Just send the SAR to their DPO and reply to the LBC separately to the litigation team (email should be at the bottom of their letters) showing them your AST and asking them to restrict data processing whilst the SAR is replied to and to freeze and restart the 30 day reply period once the SAR reply reaches you, to give you time to read the data they hold, and indeed for them to reconsider their position, given your tenancy agreement that does not require a permit to be displayed.

You really need to tell your MA (and get your landlord to support this) that you opt OUT of any permit scheme as it is purely being used to target residents and is a private nuisance impacting on your peaceful enjoyment of the property.
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OneSaidFred
post Sun, 11 Nov 2018 - 15:06
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Thanks for your reply SRM, and I agree with what you're saying. My response might imply laziness but I am a sucker for detail so just wanted to make sure I have researched enough for me to feel comfortable in my response.

I have started my response to the LBC, but thought I would share some images which I don't think were initially shared on this forum:

Initial notice on the car:
https://imgur.com/a/dPgSSgN
https://imgur.com/a/WIUZX61

6 days later I receive an amalgamated "PCN / NTK" and have clearly requested my details from the DVLA:
https://imgur.com/a/bBlxU0u

I have mentioned Primacy of Contract and that my AST makes no mention of any parking scheme or need to display a permit. I am supposed to be providing them with a copy of this contract, is that correct? I have also provided copies of Land Registry documents showing the space in question is clearly mine. I have mentioned that any display of a so called "permit" is purely for convenience to maintain quite enjoyment of the property, as set out in the agreement, and is by no means any acceptance of any "contract" or requirement.

I feel like this is enough, but should I be mentioning anything else? I don't intend to make any counter claim at this point, and unlikely to in the future.
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OneSaidFred
post Sun, 11 Nov 2018 - 16:38
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This is my response to the LBC so far:

Dear Sirs,
RE: XXXX
I am writing, as keeper of the vehicle in question, in reply to your Letter Before Claims dated XXXX for the above “outstanding liabilities”. You may also wish to refer back to your previous letters.
Your so called “debts” are disputed for the following reason:
1) Authority to Park and Primacy of Contract
I am bound to an Assured Shorthold Tenancy agreement at the premises of XXXX and so this has primacy of contract over any restrictions you, or any other third-party, place on the land, namely the parking bay in question. I have enclosed a copy of this agreement for your reference. The contract contains no clauses requiring a permit to park, nor any clause requiring me to make payments to any third party who is a stranger to that contract. I have also enclosed appropriate excerpts from The Land Registry for the property which shows that I have full access and right of use of this parking bay.
I have, under no circumstances, been offered any “contract” to opt-in to any “permit scheme” for the area of land in question, nor do I intend to do so. Any display of a so called “permit” is purely for convenience and is absolutely no acceptance of any “contract” or requirement.
The issuing “liabilities” are therefore unlawful and thus void.

Next Steps
I request that you cease all proceedings against me and consider these two “outstanding liabilities” withdrawn and thus this dispute fully resolved. I require this in writing within the next 30 calendar days from the date at the top of this letter. If you wish to pursue me further, I will also require this in writing within the next 30 calendar days from the date at the top of this letter and will also require that you provide me with the following information:
a) Whether you are pursuing me as driver or keeper
b) Whether you are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012
c) An explanation of the cause of action
d) What the details of the claim are (where it is claimed the car was parked, for how long, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated, what contractual breach (if any) is being claimed)
e) A copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim
f) A copy of any alleged contract with the driver
g) A plan showing where any signs were displayed
h) Details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)
i) If you have added anything on to the original charge, what that represents and how it has been calculated
I am clearly entitled to this information under paragraphs 6(a) and 6© of the Practice Direction. I also need it in order to comply with my own obligations under paragraph 6(b).

Yours Faithfully,
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SchoolRunMum
post Sun, 11 Nov 2018 - 21:31
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Yes that's fine. Attach your proof of primacy of contract over the parking space.

And always send a SAR online to the DPO of the parking firm, too, which is not the same as replying to the LBC.


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OneSaidFred
post Mon, 12 Nov 2018 - 22:08
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QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Sun, 11 Nov 2018 - 21:31) *
Yes that's fine. Attach your proof of primacy of contract over the parking space.

And always send a SAR online to the DPO of the parking firm, too, which is not the same as replying to the LBC.


Great thanks, and absolutely I will!
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