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PCN but have all tickets/receipts
Tigger222
post Sun, 10 Feb 2019 - 21:54
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Hi,
I live on the Isle of Wight and keep a car on the mainland. I have an annual season ticket with the ferry company and one of the perks is that I can buy a monthly car park pass to use in their car park which although owned by the ferry company, is managed by SmartParking using ANPR. The car park is basically just a pay and display but uses ANPR to check tickets, actual stay duration, etc. For some reason mid way through the current month I have started to receive a series of PCNs. My Pass ran from the 11th Jan to the 9th Feb and the first violation was on the 23rd Jan. No idea what happened so went to Ferry company on Thursday who took copies of my receipts and the Car Park Ticket I was issued with and checked them against their records and all were confirmed as valid. They then confirmed they had sent an email to Smartparking which did contain the correct car registration and start/end dates so I left copies with them and they said they would pass the details to the Retail Manager that morning who would sort it. Looking tonight at the Smartparking website the PCN still seems to be valid as I can pay it so unsure as to what to do next, give them some more time or start to chase up?
Many thanks,
Tigger.
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post Sun, 10 Feb 2019 - 21:54
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Glacier2
post Sun, 10 Feb 2019 - 22:14
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A simple no keeper liability appeal will get rid of them. You need to deal with this now.

Dear Sirs,

I have just received your Notice to Keeper xxxxx for vehicle VRM xxxx

You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to give notice of keeper liability as prescribed by section 9 (2) (f) of the Act. You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

I do not expect to hear from you again, or your debt collectors, except to confirm that no further action will be taken on this matter and my personal details have been removed from your records.

Yours etc

This post has been edited by Glacier2: Sun, 10 Feb 2019 - 22:30
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ostell
post Sun, 10 Feb 2019 - 22:36
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Get confirmation, email or letter, from Wight Link that they have ordered Smart to cancel the charges.

What exactly were they saying was the breach and reason for issuing the PCN?
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Tigger222
post Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 00:08
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The PCN states:
'By either not purchasing the appropriate parking time or by remaining at the car park for longer than permitted iaw T&Cs'

Its a system they've had in place since Jan 18 and so far has been ok for me but I keep hearing that other people, including their own staff have had similar issues.

My feeling is they've entered the wrong date for the ticket start/stop time into their system but am unsure how long they take to process this sort of thing.

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ostell
post Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 07:42
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Smart are probably delaying things as long as possible or are being inefficient.

Post up a PCN, suitabley redacted, forall to see and see if the letter in post #2 is suitable. At least it will hopefully get those tickets off your back while you sort it out with the ferry company?

Is this the car park just out side the ferry port, on the other side of the road?
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Tigger222
post Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 21:35
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Hi,
Copy of PCN attached although you'll need to zoom in to read the detail as its so small its almost impossible to read.

I've emailed Wightlink to get confirmation they have ordered Smart to cancel the charges (nothing apparent yet) and yes it is the car park opposite the ferry terminal, Gunwharf Road

Many thanks for help,

Tigger

Attached File  PCN3.pdf ( 791.29K ) Number of downloads: 92
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ostell
post Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 21:56
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That car park makes regular appearances on this forum

That NTK is not compliant with the requirements of POFA, at least what I could see, unless it is on the back and so there can be no keeper liability. Lots of failures

Keep having a go at Wightlink

Here's a link to POFA

Dear Sirs,

I have just received your Notice to Keeper xxxxx for vehicle VRM xxxx

You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to give notice of keeper liability as prescribed by section 9 (2) (f) of the Act. You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

I do not expect to hear from you again, or your debt collectors, except to confirm that no further action will be taken on this matter and my personal details have been removed from your records.

Yours etc


Send to Smart first class with free Certificate of Posting from a Post Office.

This post has been edited by ostell: Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 22:07
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Tigger222
post Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 00:23
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Hi,
Attached is the rear of the PCN. Do I need to send a letter for each PCN as I suspect I'll have a few by the end of the week or will just one suffice?

Will this kill each PCN or will Smart continue with something else?

Many thanks

TiggerAttached File  PCN_Back.pdf ( 1.05MB ) Number of downloads: 73


This post has been edited by Tigger222: Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 06:25
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ostell
post Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 09:50
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The back doesn't have any extra POFA information.

Normally I would say that a separate letter for each PCN would be required but this could be a lot of work. Send one a see what comes back and make a decision about the rest at thet time, unless they are going to run out of time to appeal.
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 12:21
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Appeal each PCN seperately
You can appeal online
Just cpoy and paste, taking screenshots that confirm you have appealed.

SMART actualy are quite smart, and cancel if they know theyll lose at POPLA. Saves them the fee.

This post has been edited by nosferatu1001: Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 12:21
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Tigger222
post Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 19:15
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Hi,
Many thanks for info. I've received 2 PCNs so far and was expecting a 3rd yesterday or today but it has not materialised. The next one would of covered the 29th Jan so I believe its either now outside the 14 day rule or the ferry company actually did something (first time for anything) to sort it.

According to the PCN I have 28 days to appeal from issue date so my intention at the moment is to give Wightlink a chance until the weekend and see if they've sorted it else follow the route you state above. This would place the 1st PCN 14 days into the 28 day appeal time. Is this likely to cause a problem for me?

On the PCNs the dates given, are they the start of the breach or the end as I park overnight and the 2 I have I can't get to sequence correctly, i.e. there's a gap between them?

Last one, is it better to appeal through their website or go postal, I assume postal better as you can get proof of posting?

Many thanks

Tigger
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Redivi
post Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 19:27
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Check with the DVLA how many times Smart has appealed for your details
It must make a new application for every parking notice

Agree - individual appeals to Smart followed by individual appeals to POPLA
Smart is charged when the POPLA access codes are used even if it doesn't contest the appeals

As Nosferatu advises, online appeals and screenshots
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Glacier2
post Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 20:02
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QUOTE
Smart is charged when the POPLA access codes are used even if it doesn't contest the appeals

Not correct. Read the POPLA annual report. PPCs only pay when they contest, so it costs them nothing to reject and issue codes.
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Tigger222
post Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 20:16
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How can I check how many times someone has accessed my data, can't find anything online?

Thanks
Tigger
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cabbyman
post Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 20:37
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SubjectAccess.Requests@dvla.gov.uk - Yes the upper case letters are intentional!

Send as much info about yourself and the vehicle as you can so that they process it without too much bother. Ask for 'details of information issued against VRMxxxxx between dates [2 days before date on first ticket] and [today].

DO NOT ask if Smart Parking have accessed. Give DVLA the opportunity to list all those that have enquired.


--------------------
Cabbyman 11 PPCs 0
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Tigger222
post Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 20:55
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Many thanks, scoured DVLA website and couldn't find anything. Sent vrm, v5c ref number, name, address, car make/model, license number so hopefully enough info there.

Cheers

Tigger
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Redivi
post Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 21:09
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QUOTE (Glacier2 @ Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 20:02) *
QUOTE
Smart is charged when the POPLA access codes are used even if it doesn't contest the appeals

Not correct. Read the POPLA annual report. PPCs only pay when they contest, so it costs them nothing to reject and issue codes.

Can't find that statement in the 2018 report

Thought POPLA had stated somewhere that the PPC does pay a fee when the code is used

According to the report, PPCs No-Contested more than 15k of the 70k approx. appeals
That would represent a very substantial loss of income
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Glacier2
post Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 21:53
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At risk of going OT, John Gallagher has stated this. He stated that "We have done no work on the case, so we don't charge".
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Fluffykins
post Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 22:16
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Others more knowledgeable than I will correct me if I am wrong. As I understand this, Smart Parking had absolutely no reason to process your data, since you demonstrably have a valid pass. If that's the case I wonder if there's cause for a counterclaim for Smart's GDPR failure.

It'd certainly mean they couldn't just stop appearing in court if they just discontinued their action against you.

I believe the going rate is £250-500 per transgression.
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ostell
post Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 22:23
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Much as I'd love to see them answer to a GDPR charge the object of the exercise at the moment is to kill those PCNs
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