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PCN in a suspended bay
Laylah22
post Thu, 21 Oct 2021 - 11:21
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Hi all,

I need some advice on a PCN and whether I should appeal or not. I parked very late at night so there was barely any street lighting at the time, also the only notice that the parking was suspended, was a small sign on the pavement half way down the street and I parked at one end so didn’t even see it. Lastly it was bin day the next morning so all the bins were out and they are large bins, this was hiding the sign as I definitely didn’t see it, poor street lighting, one very small sign for the whole street and all the bins were out when I parked so the sign would have been completely hidden if you park at either end of the street.
One last thing is that the warden observed my car from 8.09 to 8.09, not sure if that makes any difference.

Any help and advice would be much appreciated.

Thank you in advance
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post Thu, 21 Oct 2021 - 11:21
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Jlc
post Thu, 21 Oct 2021 - 11:29
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Who has issued the notice?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Laylah22
post Thu, 21 Oct 2021 - 11:36
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Worthing borough council
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Laylah22
post Thu, 21 Oct 2021 - 11:52
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Attached Image


Hopefully the image of the little sign has attached correctly, this was the only sign for the whole street, I’ve checked the street and also the PCN photos and there were no other signs anywhere in the whole street, when I parked all the household bins were out so this little sign would have been obscured.
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 21 Oct 2021 - 12:29
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So it's a council ticket?
Hit report and ask for this to be moved
You'll need to read council ticket threads so you know what info to include on your post, ie a lot more than you have above
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Laylah22
post Thu, 21 Oct 2021 - 12:38
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Ok I’ll ask for it to be moved, sorry.
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cp8759
post Thu, 21 Oct 2021 - 12:49
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Post up the PCN and the council photos in full resolution, there is no need to redact anything.

There is no hosting space on here so use an external site such as google drive or dropbox to host the images. If you don't know how to post the council photos, send me the PCN details and I'll do it for you.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative party member, this means some people think I am "scum". No, I am not a lawyer. I do not charge any fees, please stop asking me what my fees are.
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Laylah22
post Thu, 21 Oct 2021 - 13:23
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Thank you, hopefully I have managed to do this properly.

Normally you can easily see the suspended bay signs as they tie them up high onto poles showing the parking permit zones, there are usually a few poles along every street, this time they only put this little sign out which was not visible when I parked due to the bins being out. Also cars at either end of the street all had PCN’s on them as the sign was just placed in the middle so unless you walk in the direction of the sign you would not know that it was there, especially at night when they barely have any street lighting.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1L-yOQWPQa7...ew?usp=drivesdk
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tr1E_vzRMS...ew?usp=drivesdk
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ImVBfIhTHC...ew?usp=drivesdk
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vYzZG6P_rA...ew?usp=drivesdk
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1C-E9kHJobT...ew?usp=drivesdk
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lmMev1Nt8g...ew?usp=drivesdk
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JVve9jImH3...ew?usp=drivesdk
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cp8759
post Thu, 21 Oct 2021 - 13:38
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You've not turned sharing on so I sent you an access request. For future reference if you put files in a folder, you can just share the folder rather than each file individually.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative party member, this means some people think I am "scum". No, I am not a lawyer. I do not charge any fees, please stop asking me what my fees are.
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Laylah22
post Thu, 21 Oct 2021 - 13:46
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Ok I’m learning and I’ve now made a folder, thank you for pointing this out to me, I’m not great with technology
Plus I’ve opened the access to it.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1DVd...jkmmUvrOVb4Cv95

This post has been edited by Laylah22: Thu, 21 Oct 2021 - 13:49
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cp8759
post Thu, 21 Oct 2021 - 14:04
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Two points:

1) Was there a suspension sign on the permanent sign for the bay? Google street view suggests there should be one here https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.8168357,-...33;8i8192?hl=en and one here https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.8168667,-...33;8i8192?hl=en (although in the GSV shoot one of them seems to be missing).

2) Sussex County Council doesn't have an authorised suspension sign, so the sign is invalid.

I will ask for the suspension logs.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative party member, this means some people think I am "scum". No, I am not a lawyer. I do not charge any fees, please stop asking me what my fees are.
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Laylah22
post Thu, 21 Oct 2021 - 14:15
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There were no signs on the permanent bay signs, I always check and when they are put up they are clearly visible, the only sign was the one in the photos which can be moved around by anyone, and in the photos they only took a photo of the little one on the pavement.
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cp8759
post Thu, 21 Oct 2021 - 14:30
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Let's knock this one on the head:

-------------------

Dear Worthing Borough Council,

When I parked my vehicle I checked the time-plate for the bay and there was no indication of any suspension. Having consulted the regulatory sign for the bay, I was entitled to rely on it and was not under any obligation to conduct further checks. In Kandiah Gajendra v London Borough of Croydon (2200057235, 05 March 2020) the tribunal held that:

"The legal requirement is for the Council to attach the suspension notice to the same post that carries the nearest time plate for the bay so that motorists will be alerted to the suspension on checking the time plate. It is the motorist’s responsibility to check the time plate to make sure that there is no suspension notice. It is not the motorist’s responsibility to conduct a random inspection of street furniture to look for suspension notices. I find that the suspension in this case was not properly or adequately signed."

Furthermore, the sign your CEO relies on is not authorised under the Traffic Signs Regulation 2016, nor is it substantially compliant with any sign prescribed under those regulations. Many local authorities have obtained special authorisation for a parking suspension sign and the Department for Transport publishes such authorisation at www.dft.gov.uk/traffic-auths/?search=parking+suspension

Having checked the list, I note that the only sign authorised for use by West Sussex County Council is here assets.dft.gov.uk/trafficauths/case-4183.pdf and it is authorised for use in Horsham only, so there is no parking suspension sign that my lawfully be used in Worthing. This being the case, the sign is invalid and the PCN must be cancelled in any event.

Yours faithfully,


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative party member, this means some people think I am "scum". No, I am not a lawyer. I do not charge any fees, please stop asking me what my fees are.
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Laylah22
post Thu, 21 Oct 2021 - 14:33
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Thank you so so much, I will appeal this straight away, I really appreciate your help with this.
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Mad Mick V
post Thu, 21 Oct 2021 - 14:34
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+ the 10 minute rule---contravention in force 0800hrs, PCN 0809hrs.

Mick
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cp8759
post Wed, 27 Oct 2021 - 14:51
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Suspension log: https://adur-worthing-hr.onmats.com/w/file/...mp;allow_open=1

Suspension photos: https://adur-worthing-hr.onmats.com/w/file/...mp;allow_open=1

So the signs were put up before you parked, but given their inadequacy I don't think it matters one bit.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative party member, this means some people think I am "scum". No, I am not a lawyer. I do not charge any fees, please stop asking me what my fees are.
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Laylah22
post Wed, 27 Oct 2021 - 15:11
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I’ve not had a reply to my appeal yet. Looking at the images in the link it shows the little suspension sign half way down the road which is the only one supplied by them in my PCN notice, this is also a sign that can be moved by anyone. I can see that they added one to the time plate at one end of the road but not the one where my car was parked, I live on the road around the corner from the sign which did not have a suspension sign attached, so there is no way I could have known unless I decided to away from my house.
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