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Park Direct Uxbridge 233 High Street, Ignore or Appeal
JLA1
post Tue, 20 Feb 2018 - 10:36
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Hi All,

Friend of mine received this Parking Charge Notice by post from ParkDirectUk the other day. There was no ticket on windscreen and he doesn't remember seeing any CCTV or ANPR cameras or a warden of any kind. Not sure of reason he was parked there or for how long yet, but just wondered if this PCN can be ignored or should he appeal. Been reading other threads and it seems all appeals to ParkDirect are ignored anyway and IAS is a waste of time too. He doesn't live locally so it's not easy for him to go back to take pic's of signs etc. I've Googled it, but image from July 2017 shows a sign that looks different to the one in PCN pic. Does anyone have an up to date pic of sign there now?

Any thoughts or help on this greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

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post Tue, 20 Feb 2018 - 10:36
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freddy1
post Tue, 20 Feb 2018 - 10:50
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the land is no longer run by scum and Co , as it was ANPR , then it must have been issued within the last 14 days


ammendments were made on 25th jan , that is over 14 days ago


providing we are on the same place

This post has been edited by freddy1: Tue, 20 Feb 2018 - 10:54
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Redivi
post Tue, 20 Feb 2018 - 10:54
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Park Direct UK is a former clamper that turned to aggressive ticketing when the practice was banned

Uxbridge High Street is a notorious location that was the subject of many threads

In what respect was the parking unauthorised ?
Can't use the normal "inadequate signs" as the only grounds for an appeal when the photo shows him clearly parked next to a large one

If the reason for the parking notice isn't obvious, it fails to meet one of the conditions of the Protection of Freedoms Act to recover payment from the keeper

As an aside, might be worth a check to see if PDUK still has outstanding CCJs from its clamping days

If so, in the event that they took your friend to court AND won, it would be very amusing and perfectly legitimate to pay one of its creditors instead
All PDUK would have to show for the cost and effort would be the removal of a CCJ that they never intended to pay anyway

This post has been edited by Redivi: Tue, 20 Feb 2018 - 10:55
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freddy1
post Tue, 20 Feb 2018 - 10:55
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http://lbbspending.blogspot.co.uk/2018/02/...Parade.html?m=1

all gone , 25th jan
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JLA1
post Wed, 21 Feb 2018 - 09:09
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Thanks for replies. Freddy1, thanks and i'm not sure if i'm missing something, but the link you gave is for Barnet and this happened in Hillingdon.

I've uploaded some more pics of site taken yesterday (could only do 2). Admittedly he was parked next to a sign but the terms and conditions on the sign state that 'vehicles must display a valid PDUK approved permit fully within the windscreen and comply with all conditions on the permit' . The sign gives no indication as to where or how you obtain a permit so it is impossible to comply.

There is also a sign from the Gym which says that members should log their vehicles at reception, so no permits are issued by them. As this bit of land is next to a shopping centre (parking was full) and behind other shops (which my friend was using) it is impossible to know where a permit can be obtained from.

Should he use the above argument in an appeal (which he know's will fail anyway)?

Thanks.

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JLA1
post Wed, 21 Feb 2018 - 10:39
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Does PoFA still apply if they are not a member of the BPA?
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Redivi
post Wed, 21 Feb 2018 - 10:57
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QUOTE (JLA1 @ Wed, 21 Feb 2018 - 10:39) *
Does PoFA still apply if they are not a member of the BPA?

Yes
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freddy1
post Wed, 21 Feb 2018 - 10:57
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if not a member of the bpa , they will be IPC , it is recommended NOT to bother appealing to them


1: they are not indipendent

2: the solicitors used by IPC companies are often gladstones

3: the owners of the IPC own gladstones

suggest reading this http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4816822 it may answer most of your questions
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JLA1
post Mon, 19 Mar 2018 - 16:10
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Hi All,

Sent my response as Keeper to Park Direct as below:



And received this:







Am i right in thinking that they cannot hold me liable under POFA Schedule 4 (as they state) because 28 days have not passed since the issuing of the NTK dated 15/2/18 and the date of their rejection letter 12/3/18 (even though i never actually appealed) demanding payment from me as the keeper. I make that a total of 25 days.

I also note that their rejection letter clearly states they are members of both the BPA and IPC whereas on the the NTK it's IPC only.

I understand an appeal to the IAS is a waste of time so should i just ignore from now and see how far it goes? If it ever did get to court am i correct with regards to Keeper liability?

Any advice much appreciated.

Thanks.

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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 20 Mar 2018 - 07:18
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POFA has no restritions on when they can reject and the timing. The critical timing is when they have to get the NtK to you, whcih for a windscreen ticket is after 28 days, and for ANPR / no windscreen type is within 14.

They can be corp members of the BPA.
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JLA1
post Tue, 20 Mar 2018 - 09:01
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Thanks for reply and apologies if i sound a bit confused here, but am i reading this wrong with regards to the 28 day timing thing? I understand the following to mean they have to wait until after 28 days to demand payment from me as the Keeper, but it's only been 25 days (or less if i include the extra days for delivery of notice).


Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 SCHEDULE 4
Recovery of unpaid parking charges

Right to claim unpaid parking charges from keeper of vehicle

4 (1)The creditor has the right to recover any unpaid parking charges from the keeper of the vehicle.

(2)The right under this paragraph applies only if—
(a)the conditions specified in paragraphs 5, 6, 11 and 12 (so far as applicable) are met; and
(b)the vehicle was not a stolen vehicle at the beginning of the period of parking to which the unpaid parking charges relate.

(3)For the purposes of the condition in sub-paragraph (2)(b), the vehicle is to be presumed not to be a stolen vehicle at the material time, unless the contrary is proved.

(4)The right under this paragraph may only be exercised after the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the day on which the notice to keeper is given

(5)The maximum sum which may be recovered from the keeper by virtue of the right conferred by this paragraph is the amount specified in the notice to keeper under paragraph 8(2)© or (d) or,
as the case may be, 9(2)(d) (less any payments towards the unpaid parking charges which are received after the time so specified).

(6)Nothing in this paragraph affects any other remedy the creditor may have against the keeper of the vehicle or any other person in respect of any unpaid parking charges (but this is not to be
read as permitting double recovery).

(7)The right under this paragraph is subject to paragraph 13 (which provides for the right not to apply in certain circumstances in the case of a hire vehicle).


Conditions that must be met for purposes of paragraph 4

5(1)The first condition is that the creditor—
(a)has the right to enforce against the driver of the vehicle the requirement to pay the unpaid parking charges; but
(b)is unable to take steps to enforce that requirement against the driver because the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver.

(2)Sub-paragraph (1)(b) ceases to apply if (at any time after the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the day on which the notice to keeper is given) the creditor begins proceedings to
recover the unpaid parking charges from the keeper.

6(1)The second condition is that the creditor (or a person acting for or on behalf of the creditor)—
(a)has given a notice to driver in accordance with paragraph 7, followed by a notice to keeper in accordance with paragraph 8; or
(b)has given a notice to keeper in accordance with paragraph 9.

(2)If a notice to driver has been given, any subsequent notice to keeper must be given in accordance with paragraph 8.

9 (1)A notice which is to be relied on as a notice to keeper for the purposes of paragraph 6(1)(b) is given in accordance with this paragraph if the following requirements are met.

(2)The notice must—
(a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;
(b)inform the keeper that the driver is required to pay parking charges in respect of the specified period of parking and that the parking charges have not been paid in full;
©describe the parking charges due from the driver as at the end of that period, the circumstances in which the requirement to pay them arose (including the means by which the requirement was
brought to the attention of drivers) and the other facts that made them payable;
(d)specify the total amount of those parking charges that are unpaid, as at a time which is—
(i)specified in the notice; and
(ii)no later than the end of the day before the day on which the notice is either sent by post or, as the case may be, handed to or left at a current address for service for the keeper (see sub-
paragraph (4));
(e)state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and invite the keeper—
(i)to pay the unpaid parking charges; or
(ii)if the keeper was not the driver of the vehicle, to notify the creditor of the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and to pass the notice on to the driver;
(f)warn the keeper that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given—
(i)the amount of the unpaid parking charges specified under paragraph (d) has not been paid in full, and
(ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver,the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right
to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid;
(g)inform the keeper of any discount offered for prompt payment and the arrangements for the resolution of disputes or complaints that are available;
(h)identify the creditor and specify how and to whom payment or notification to the creditor may be made;
(i)specify the date on which the notice is sent (where it is sent by post) or given (in any other case).

(3)The notice must relate only to a single period of parking specified under sub-paragraph (2)(a) (but this does not prevent the giving of separate notices which each specify different parts of a single
period of parking).

(4)The notice must be given by—
(a)handing it to the keeper, or leaving it at a current address for service for the keeper, within the relevant period; or
(b)sending it by post to a current address for service for the keeper so that it is delivered to that address within the relevant period.

(5)The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 14 days beginning with the day after that on which the specified period of parking ended.

(6)A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been delivered (and so “given” for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4)) on the second working day after the day on
which it is posted; and for this purpose “working day” means any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a public holiday in England and Wales.

(7)When the notice is given it must be accompanied by any evidence prescribed under paragraph 10.

(8)In sub-paragraph (2)(g) the reference to arrangements for the resolution of disputes or complaints includes—
(a)any procedures offered by the creditor for dealing informally with representations by the keeper about the notice or any matter contained in it; and
(b)any arrangements under which disputes or complaints (however described) may be referred by the keeper to independent adjudication or arbitration.

Clarification on this is much needed and appreciated. If i have got it wrong, should i just ignore now or appeal to IAS. If they are a member of both bodies shouldn't they offer the option to appeal to either body?

Thanks.



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Redivi
post Tue, 20 Mar 2018 - 09:13
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If there was a windscreen ticket, they're too early
If there wasn't, they're too late

The DVLA takes a dim view of companies claiming rights under POFA when it doesn't apply so send a complaint
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 20 Mar 2018 - 11:17
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OK, this is confusing as well as there are no dates in the first image. Give dates for everything in one post.

From DATE OF NTK to DATE YOU CAN BE HELD LIABLE they ahve to allow 28 days, and this is calculated from the day AFTER the DATE GIVEN of the NtK - 2 working days after date of it entering the post, asumed to be issue date unless you know otherwise.

WHile their rejection may have arrived too early for the 28 days period - which I dont know - its frankly irrelevant as court - the only place that can actually find you liable - will be many months away. If they issue proceedings next week then they woudl be ok from a POFA perspective (but not from the PAP for debt claims whcih requires a LBA with at least 30 days to respond)

You never appal to the IAS unless you are much better at this.
I said they can be a CORP member of the BPA. Thats not the same as an AOS member. Yes, there are two types of membership for both orgs. Being a corp member has nothing to do with offering POPLA. Rectuangular vs round logo - round logo tells you which appeals system they use

So you ignore.
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JLA1
post Tue, 20 Mar 2018 - 22:04
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Sorry for sounding stupid but i'm still not sure if they can hold me liable as the Registered Keeper or not. Just to clarify the dates are:

Date of contravention 11/2/18

NTK issued 15/2/18 (received 17/2/18)

Letter as reg keeper sent to Park Direct 10/3/18

Rejection letter dated 12/3/18 (received 16/3/18) from Park Direct stating i'm liable as reg keeper.

Only 25 days from issue date of NTK to letter stating Keeper liable or 23 days if count 2 days del of NTK.

Thanks.
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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 21 Mar 2018 - 08:03
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OK so the key first date - received within 14 days - has been met. No problem there.

As i said above, yes they MIGHT be a little early in claiming you as keeper are liable, but the point I made above is that this doesnt really matter. By the time this goes to court, they WILL be over the 28 days, and I doubt a court would consider them jumping the gun a little bit like this to be a huge problem.
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JLA1
post Thu, 22 Mar 2018 - 17:40
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Ok so if it's ignored and ever gets to court on what grounds could it be defended, the ones already stated? Or no chance!
Thanks.
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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 23 Mar 2018 - 07:11
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The ones found in every thread. SIgnage, standing, amount is hidden (if it is), keeper liability (14 days isnt the only thing they need to get right!)
YOu need to do some research on this

And, frankly ,if you get to court you can argue down all the crap extra costs anyway - POFA ONLY lets them collect the amount on the NtK, NOTHING more (court fees obviously are allowed0
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JLA1
post Sun, 12 Aug 2018 - 13:18
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Hi All, ignored these to date but just received Gladstones letter and would be very grateful for your help and advice as to what to do now and whether you think they are likely to go to court with it.

Thanks.









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cabbyman
post Sun, 12 Aug 2018 - 13:26
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It's not a Gladstones letter; it's a DRP letter on Gladstones letterheading, because it asks you to pay DRP. Continue to ignore, although there is a letter on here somewhere to send to Gladstones. It asks them to confirm or deny the letter came from them and would be a useful one to have on file in the event that it did get as far as court.

Have a search around the forum or maybe someone can point you in the right direction. Unfortunately, I'm tight on time at the moment.


--------------------
Cabbyman 11 PPCs 0
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JLA1
post Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 12:31
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Thanks for reply Cabbyman. I've written to Gladstones so await their reply, if any.

Would appreciate any other advice on what my next move should be or do i just wait for any response/further letters?

Thanks.
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