Possible double MS90, Any help gratefully received! Options

[Ella592]

Hello,

My partner has a problem related to court fines and ultimately his driving licence. We moved house last year, and totally forgot to change the address on the V5. The first we realised this was when my partner received a court fine of £800 last month. It transpired that he had received a speeding ticket, and all documentation and summons had gone to the old address. We paid the fine in full, sent off notification for the change of address and chalked it up to experience. The new V5 arrived about a week ago. Yesterday we received another letter from a bailiff for a fine of over £1000 from a different court for another speeding ticket that was unpaid, summons to old address etc. These two letters are the only paperwork we have, we only found out what the offences were in the first case from the court when we called them and in the second case from the bailiff when we called. I don’t have a driving licence, so I’m not hugely familiar with any procedures around driving, and my partner is from the EU, and only been driving in the UK for two years, so it’s not that familiar to him either. He is driving on an EU licence, so I realise we probably need to call the DVLA to ask about his “skeleton” licence and how many points are on it, but I have so many questions, and would just appreciate any help you can give, as we’re not really sure where to turn at the moment…
1. Looking at different forums and things, it seems like the SP30 will get changed into an MS90, which gives 6 points… If he has two of those, do you get 2 lots of six points, or is it the type of conviction you would only get once?
2. If he does have that, then he’s on 12 points, which would be an automatic ban? He hasn’t seen a judge, obviously, as he was unaware of all of this, so does that mean he could be banned “in absentia”. If so, how is he supposed to know about it?
3. If we call the DVLA and find out he is banned, is there any risk of a “back-prosecution”, ie, getting into trouble because he has been driving unaware of the ban?
4. I’ve heard about doing a statutory declaration to set aside the MS90 and putting in a plea bargain. Is this something he could do on his own, or would he need to take legal advice and work with a solicitor (just concerned about cost of legal advice & fees)
5. Is it too late to make a statutory declaration for the first fine (Further Steps letter received August 1st)? Could he do both at the same time, or would he need to do two separate ones?
6. The compliance date for the most recent fine is Friday - does making payment/arrangements to pay in any way prejudice him in terms of making a statutory declaration? I called them and they are ready to send bailiffs on Friday (they said they had already visited the old address).

Sorry for all the questions, we’re just quite freaked out at the moment by the implications of the driving ban, not just for the impracticality of it, but the ramifications for future insurance, too. He’s not trying to get out of anything at all - it’s clearly his fault for not changing the V5, and for speeding twice, but we’re just looking for a way to make it as “undamaging” as possible to his licence. Thanks so much for any help you can give :-)

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[The Rookie]

1/ MS90 is the conviction code for failing to name the driver, the driver can’t get the SP30 (or whichever speeding code applies in the exact circumstances) as the court don’t know who was driving, so it’s not strictly correct to say it’s ‘turned into an MS90’.

2/ Yes it’s possible he’s received a totting (6month likely) ban and shouldn’t drive until he’s checked with DVLA

3/ No, especially if he takes the correct action to get this latest conviction reversed.

4/ correct and easy to do on his own.

5/ it’s not too late, but the court only HAVE to accept one made within 21 days becoming aware of the court case, they may or may not accept it now.

6/ ask the court how soon you can do the SD first!

[Ella592]

Thanks so much for the reply, will call the DVLA and courts asap.

[Ella592]

Hello,

Just to follow up on this, I called DVLA and they confirmed two MS90s and therefore a T99 totting up disqualification until November. I called the court to get a date for the statutory declaration - my partner has a hearing on Wednesday morning. He is booked in for the regular SD for the second fine, and for a request to re-open the case for the first fine (given that more than 21 days have passed). He was driving both times, and therefore intends to plead guilty to the speeding charges. I just have a couple of questions regarding Wednesday:

1. The guy I spoke to on the phone said that the SD and subsequent hearing would likely both take place on Wednesday (providing partner pleads guilty). He also said the the court would not prosecute SP30 and MS90 - it's one or the other. Does my partner need to do anything in this regard (like a plea bargain that I've read about elsewhere), or does pleading guilty to the SP30 automatically take away the MS90 charge?
2. If the magistrates agree to reopen the first case, does that mean that the convictions and points are wiped and it starts over (as in the case of the SD)? Would there be an automatic refund of the fine we did pay in this case?
3. Are there any dangers in reopening the case (eg getting fined again on top of the fine we already paid/getting "re-convicted" of the MS90 and effectively extending the ban to 6 months from Wednesday). The SD process seems quite standardised, whereas I haven't really been able to find much about reopening an older case.
4. If they do not accept pleading guilty to the speeding, and dropping the MS90, I understand that he should plead not guilty to both, and try to get a "plea bargain" at the next date, is that correct? If he does this would he be liable for any further court costs?

Thanks again.

This post has been edited by Ella592: Tue, 17 Sep 2019 - 10:51

[nosferatu1001]

1) Nothing is automatic, is my understanding. Do the plea bargain if you possibly can, if they wont please NG to both and it will be adjourned for another day (again, my understanding) for a real hearing where a prosecutor will be in attendance to do the deal with
2) Thats my understanding, but of course any new fine would reduce any regund
3) Not to my knowledge - the auim shoudl be two SP30 convictions so no danger of a tot, at worst one 3 points one 6 points so no tot
4) Thats my undestanding, and potentially although the first "hearing" is minimal. Its likely of far less import to you than avoiding the TT99 i would have thought!

[Ella592]

Thanks so much for the reply nosferatu, that's really helpful. At present he's got 2 MS90s, a TT99, an £800 fine that's been paid and a £1200 fine pending - at this point, any reduction on anything would be more than welcome!

[little-freddie]

......Fingers crossed,... They are not all monsters in Court, you know!! Good luck, & I bet I know what will be the FIRST thing you do, if ever you move again.......... So many cases arise on this site from the simple 'forget'....

[Ella592]

Thanks so much little-freddie. Yeah, it's the not knowing that's crap, I think - like maybe he'll get a monster, maybe he won't! Pff, yep, I don't think there'll ever be a V5 oversight in our household again! Crazy to think how many people have no idea about this whole process and just cough up, too...

[Redivi]

In the extremely unlikely event that the rehearing results in two S172 convictions, what happens to the totting-up disqualification ?

Still ends in November ?
A new six months disqualification ?
A new six months minus the four months served that he was unaware of ?

[The Rookie]

A new six months minus the four months served that he was unaware of ?

Would be normal.

[Ella592]

Hi,

I just wanted to follow up with what happened at court last week. My partner made the statutory declaration for both convictions - they didn't even raise the question of it being over 21 days since the earlier one. Then proceeded onto pleas for both S172s - the legal advisor expected my partner to ask about the 'deal', and accepted it without question. He then advised the magistrates that they had sentencing guidelines, but the speeds (37 in a 30 and 58 in a 50) would have been likely to have resulted in fixed penalty fines, so they might want to consider issuing those fines (instead of the higher ones they could have issued based on income). They accepted. So, all previous convictions wiped, £800 refund due, £200 in fines to pay and 6 points on the licence.

It seems like everything went as perfectly as we could have hoped, in terms of convictions, fines and points. I just wanted to thank everyone on here who gave their time and advice - it's so generous of you, and it's really, really appreciated.

[The Rookie]

Good result, it seems that on grounds of pragmatism the legal advisers are overstepping their mark and suggesting the two are treated as alternatives.