Parking Contravention - Lambeth Options

[relatable]

Hello,

I received a PCN from parking incorrectly in Lambeth, dated the 29th of October 2019.

Please see photos taken by the council below:

https://ibb.co/NmxGjf0
https://ibb.co/Lx4qTsy
https://ibb.co/xhk6g0d
https://ibb.co/KF262Qv
https://ibb.co/jzXkCYZ

Here is the Google Street View: https://goo.gl/maps/S9dxCXyxw2SMye339 - I was parked on the left.

I would like to know how to proceed with this. I thought I was parked fine - parking there is seemingly confusing with driveways, lines and signs all over the place. Admittedly, I had not seen the sign on the other side of the pole.

Any advise is greatly appreciated, any things I have left out or you need to know from me, please ask.

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[stamfordman]

That gap between end of yellow lines and sign is a trap and if council wants to ban footway parking there then it should use a parallel sign with an arrow.

Also, the resolution allowing parking may apply to that stretch anyway.

Guidance:

Although upright signs indicating the beginning and end of a parking place on a footway are normally mounted to face oncoming traffic, there might be situations where it is more practical to mount signs parallel to the kerb, similar to other parking signs. Where footway parking with no bay markings commences part way along a road and is not preceded by a yellow “no waiting” line or other road marking, a start sign facing oncoming traffic could be mistaken for a repeater sign, tempting drivers to park in advance of it where footway parking should not take place.





This post has been edited by stamfordman: Sun, 3 Nov 2019 - 15:01

[cp8759]

I would challenge on the resolution, I suspect the sign was placed on that street lighting column because it was a convenient location rather than because that's where the footway parking area actually starts / ends.

[relatable]

Thanks for the responses.

I am in the process of appealing and I have received two bits of advice, which are both very helpful. Do I use both comments in my appeal?

[stamfordman]

Draft a challenge and post here for tweaking.

[relatable]

Below is what I have so far. Many thanks in advance. (I'm not very good at writing this!)


Hello,

I am hereby submitting my challenge to the PCN.

I believe this PCN has been issued incorrectly. If we review the evidence and compare that with the attached image <inserted google streetview link> we can see that from the perspective of where I was parked, parking would appear to be safe. And rather, I believe the signage might have been placed there for the convenience rather than where the footway parking starts / ends in actual. Especially when we compare this to the opposite side of the road where the sign has been moved further back. Therefore I am of the believe that the sign applies to this stretch of the road the vehicle was parked at.

Otherwise, the gap between the yellow lines and sign seems like it were designed to catch owners out and if footway parking is not permitted a parallel sign with an arrow should be placed there indicating as such.
Although upright signs indicating the beginning and end of a parking place on a footway are normally mounted to face oncoming traffic, there might be situations where it is more practical to mount signs parallel to the kerb, similar to other parking signs. Where footway parking with no bay markings commences part way along a road and is not preceded by a yellow “no waiting” line or other road marking, a start sign facing oncoming traffic could be mistaken for a repeater sign, tempting drivers to park in advance of it where footway parking should not take place.

[stamfordman]

this needs redoing - I or someone else will do later but must be sent by tomorrow or Monday I think to keep in 14 day deadline

[relatable]

Correct - I am hoping to submit it by tomorrow. Any help hugely appreciated!

[stamfordman]

Wait for CP or someone else to give this is check but I think this will be a solid challenge.


Dear parking,

I wish to challenge the PCN on two grounds.

1. It is clear that a resolution disapplying the footway parking ban has been passed for this road and therefore I submit my car was lawfully parked and the PCN has been mistakenly issued. If this is not the case I would expect you to produce evidence that the ban does apply to the part of the footway between the end of the double yellow lines and the lamppost.

2. Regardless of the first ground, I also submit that you have not followed guidance in the Traffic Signs Manual. I parked in front of a sign on the left hand side of the road that indicated pavement parking. In section 13.19.10 it is stated:

Where footway parking with no bay markings commences part way along a road and is not preceded by a yellow “no waiting” line or other road marking, a start sign facing oncoming traffic could be mistaken for a repeater sign, tempting drivers to park in advance of it where footway parking should not take place.

I was misled by precisely this situation at the location as there was no indication from my approach that you intend footway parking to commence beyond the sign. Signage must be clear and not confuse a driver.

I look forward to your reply that cancels this PCN and would respectfully submit that the signage needs to be improved, and the resolution and traffic order checked.

Yours

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Sat, 9 Nov 2019 - 18:30

[cp8759]

I've tweaked ground 1, for an informal challenge this is more than enough.

Dear parking,

I wish to challenge the PCN on two grounds.

1. It is clear that a resolution disapplying the footway parking ban has been passed for this road and therefore I submit my car was lawfully parked and the PCN has been mistakenly issued. If this is not the I request that the council produce the resolution duly passed under section 15(4) of the Greater London Council (General Powers) Act 1974 to permit footway parking on this road. Without sight of the resolution, I cannot know that the location where I parked was not in fact exempt, and the location of the signage was dictated simply by the practical convenience of attaching the sign to an existing streetlight, rather than because this is where the exemption actually starts.

2. Regardless of the first ground, I also submit that you have not followed guidance in the Traffic Signs Manual. I parked in front of a sign on the left hand side of the road that indicated pavement parking. In section 13.19.10 it is stated:

Where footway parking with no bay markings commences part way along a road and is not preceded by a yellow “no waiting” line or other road marking, a start sign facing oncoming traffic could be mistaken for a repeater sign, tempting drivers to park in advance of it where footway parking should not take place.

I was misled by precisely this situation at the location as there was no indication from my approach that you intend footway parking to commence beyond the sign. Signage must be clear and not confuse a driver.

I look forward to your reply that cancels this PCN and would respectfully submit that the signage needs to be improved, and the resolution and traffic order checked.

Yours

I'm trying to get hold of the resolution myself under FOI but there's no guarantee I'll get it before mid-January next year.

[relatable]

Thanks for the responses. I have submitted my appeal. Once I receive back from the LA, I shall let you know of their response.

Once again, thanks ever so much for helping out!

[hcandersen]

Just seen this one....

Try looking on the other side of the road!!!

[Mad Mick V]

+1
Positioned at the building line. Probably could have put the L/H sign on the telegraph post since any vehicle would be past the building line anyway.

Mick

[stamfordman]

They've done the same thing even more so across the crossroads:

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4141393,-0....6384!8i8192

[relatable]

I was aware of these signs on the other side of the rode. I did not put this in the appeal, as the response written by CP and stamford seemed to cover more than enough regarding the appeal, but this is what I meant with my original post with the confusing signs in the area, just looking at Streetview should show you the mess with the signs.

[stamfordman]

Don't worry - the challenge is fine and is about the location you parked in. If we are right and they've bungled the placement of the signs you won't be paying it; even if they haven't the misleading position should win.

[relatable]

Bad news:

Our Decision
I have read the details of your letter and I am satisfied that the PCN was issued correctly and that there are no grounds for
me to cancel it. This letter is issued as a rejection of your challenge.

Why was the PCN issued?
You were issued a PCN for parking with one wheel (or more) on the pavement or off the road. Pavement or off-road parking
is not allowed unless signs say otherwise. This rule applies 24 hours a day, seven days a week, and is enforced because
vehicles:

- can get in the way of pedestrians, especially blind people or people with prams; and
- can damage paving or underground pipes.

However, I must inform you that the signage in place means that vehicles may be parked on the footway beyond the point of
this sign which indicates that pavement parking is permitted.
The enclosed photos help to show why your PCN was issued.

Pay for the PCN
The PCN is currently outstanding at £110. However, you can pay £55 by Friday, 29 November 2019. The How to Pay
section tells you how you can do this. Please note that if you want to challenge it further, you shouldn't pay. Once payment is
made the case maybe regarded as closed.

Wait for the Notice to Owner(NtO)/Enforcement Notice(EN)
If you are not happy with the outcome of this challenge, you should wait for the NtO/EN. We will issue the NtO/EN to the
registered keeper of the vehicle because they are liable for any unpaid PCNs. This will allow you to submit a formal
representation against the PCN. Please note if your representation is unsuccessful the registered keeper of the vehicle will
have to pay the full rate. The NtO/EN will give you more information on how to do this.

How to Pay:
Online or over the phone
The easiest way to pay for you PCN is by visiting our website www.lambeth.gov.uk/payments where you can pay by
Debit/Credit card. Alternatively you can call 0333 800 5005. The lines are open 24 hrs, 7 days a week
Post
You can also send us payment by post; however we need to receive this within the time stated above. Cheques and Postal
Orders must be made payable to "London Borough of Lambeth" and sent to Lambeth Parking Services, P.O. Box 4525, Worthing, BN13 1XT. Please make sure you write the PCN number on the back of the cheque.


They provided nothing else, just rejecting the appeal. For what it is worth, the enclosed photo's are the same ones posted in my original post.

This post has been edited by relatable: Fri, 15 Nov 2019 - 12:21

[stamfordman]

Just a fob off letter - I would wait for the NTO and we'll go for them on this.

[cp8759]

Well the council has ignored your request for a copy of the footway parking resolution, which is a good start. This all but confirms the resolution has not actually been checked.

[PASTMYBEST]

Well the council has ignored your request for a copy of the footway parking resolution, which is a good start. This all but confirms the resolution has not actually been checked.

I wonder if it ever occurs to the parking bods that they have to follow rules, not just make them up