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Security - swabs taken at Westfield Stratford, Can they do it?
Glitch
post Sun, 15 Apr 2012 - 09:31
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I am a regular visitor to Westfield Stratford Shopping complex. It is also the site for the 2012 Olympics.

Security is somewhat above a normal shopping centre and will no doubt tighten a lot more before July.

On driving into the site - just to go shopping or drop my son off for his part time job there is a chance to be selected for a vehicle check.
All they have done to date is look in the boot. It takes seconds. Staff look as though they must be on minimum wage.
I had to point out that Honda CR-V's have a big well under the boot floor. Big enough to hide something significant.

Anyway, yesterday as I got out of the car they helped themselves to a swab of the steering wheel and gearstick. No asking permission or explanation.
When asked the guy said they were checking for "dangerous substances". I asked if my DNA was going to be destroyed and his only retort was that it would have his on it too.
They let me drive off before there was any analysis. I was in a hurry to pick up my son otherwise I would have been more challenging about it.

Any ideas what they are allowed to take and keep and under what laws?

This post has been edited by Glitch: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 - 09:32
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post Sun, 15 Apr 2012 - 09:31
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Transit man
post Sun, 15 Apr 2012 - 10:01
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Canary Wharf also do the swab test, one assumes that it is for explosive residue. I have also been stopped there & had a sniffer dog let loose in the back. Interestingly, I am often stopped by "professional security operatives" who ask to look in the back of the van, when it's opened to reveal that it is jam packed full & you cannot see beyond whatever is at the very rear, they just say OK & let me on my way.

Could be a tonne of C4 in front for all they know.


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Glitch
post Sun, 15 Apr 2012 - 10:28
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QUOTE (Transit man @ Sun, 15 Apr 2012 - 11:01) *
Canary Wharf also do the swab test, one assumes that it is for explosive residue. I have also been stopped there & had a sniffer dog let loose in the back. Interestingly, I am often stopped by "professional security operatives" who ask to look in the back of the van, when it's opened to reveal that it is jam packed full & you cannot see beyond whatever is at the very rear, they just say OK & let me on my way.

Could be a tonne of C4 in front for all they know.



Reminds me of the guys checking the shopping at the exit in Costco's Checking the bill against what is in the trolley¬ biggrin.gif
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jobo
post Sun, 15 Apr 2012 - 10:48
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interesting, they have no right to search anything with out your permission, though they would then have the right to refuse entry to you and clearly no rights at all on the way out re costco

havening got your permission to search can they swab ? well id say no unless they have express permission to do so, tresspass to goods maybe


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axeman
post Sun, 15 Apr 2012 - 11:08
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QUOTE (Glitch @ Sun, 15 Apr 2012 - 11:28) *
QUOTE (Transit man @ Sun, 15 Apr 2012 - 11:01) *
Canary Wharf also do the swab test, one assumes that it is for explosive residue. I have also been stopped there & had a sniffer dog let loose in the back. Interestingly, I am often stopped by "professional security operatives" who ask to look in the back of the van, when it's opened to reveal that it is jam packed full & you cannot see beyond whatever is at the very rear, they just say OK & let me on my way.

Could be a tonne of C4 in front for all they know.



Reminds me of the guys checking the shopping at the exit in Costco's Checking the bill against what is in the trolley¬ biggrin.gif


They say its to ensure you have what you should, in the States they are more truthful, told me we write on the bill so you cant re-enter and get the same stuff then exit with the same bill.


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Glitch
post Sun, 15 Apr 2012 - 11:54
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Anyone know if the Westfield Stratford site is private property, or patrolled by LBN?

I often wait at a "Bus Stop" bay - no buses stop there, not an official stop.

Only seen private security patrolling, often parke din same bay and never seen a CEO.

Keep expecting to get a ticket through CCTV but nothing yet.

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captain swoop
post Sun, 15 Apr 2012 - 13:44
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QUOTE (jobo @ Sun, 15 Apr 2012 - 11:48) *
interesting, they have no right to search anything with out your permission, though they would then have the right to refuse entry to you and clearly no rights at all on the way out re costco

havening got your permission to search can they swab ? well id say no unless they have express permission to do so, tresspass to goods maybe


If you give permissin then a swab to search for explosive residue would be part of the search ?

This post has been edited by captain swoop: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 - 13:46
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Glitch
post Sun, 15 Apr 2012 - 16:27
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QUOTE (captain swoop @ Sun, 15 Apr 2012 - 14:44) *
QUOTE (jobo @ Sun, 15 Apr 2012 - 11:48) *
interesting, they have no right to search anything with out your permission, though they would then have the right to refuse entry to you and clearly no rights at all on the way out re costco

havening got your permission to search can they swab ? well id say no unless they have express permission to do so, tresspass to goods maybe


If you give permissin then a swab to search for explosive residue would be part of the search ?


It is not made clear what they are looking for and what they do with the swab or any information derived from it.
It could be used to detect drugs or check DNA for all I know. I have nothing to hide but they should explain what they are doing and what data they keep. They presumably did the check after I left so surely they kept reg no. in case they find something. Even at the airport they do the test in front of you and I am not aware that they keep any data after.
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jobo
post Sun, 15 Apr 2012 - 16:31
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QUOTE (captain swoop @ Sun, 15 Apr 2012 - 14:44) *
QUOTE (jobo @ Sun, 15 Apr 2012 - 11:48) *
interesting, they have no right to search anything with out your permission, though they would then have the right to refuse entry to you and clearly no rights at all on the way out re costco

havening got your permission to search can they swab ? well id say no unless they have express permission to do so, tresspass to goods maybe


If you give permissin then a swab to search for explosive residue would be part of the search ?


i wouldnt say so, myself, if the police search me they cant stick a dna swab on as part of it, taking a sample of something in my bag isnt the same as searching my bag

searching and seizure are two completely different things and even if its just sweat its still belongs to you and their taking it with out permision from inside your propety

This post has been edited by jobo: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 - 16:33


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Transit man
post Sun, 15 Apr 2012 - 17:56
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The problem is not the rights & wrongs of them taking it, more the inconvenience that a refusal or demand of rights from them to take it will yield.

For example, if I played my face at Canary Wharf, I would probably be asked to pull over & be treated to a long wait whilst they did what they had/wanted to do & possibly then be refused entry, which, when you just want to get in, drop off the load & get out, is not the best action to take for the ease of my business. In 99% of cases where you are treated to such actions, the reality is that you want or need to go in there, so it's a short & curly moment.

Doesn't make it right, but it's the simple life for me, they are more than welcome to my DNA biggrin.gif


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Now driving a Mercedes Sprinter, the Transit died of too much work.
Results for last 5 years:-
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2 Council tickets received, 0 paid (both canceled)
2 Nip's in 40 years 1 paid (damn!)
1 SAC, duly educated!

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mike848
post Sun, 15 Apr 2012 - 17:59
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Six months ago I had reason to drive into this so-called Olympic area - just heading for Stratford British Rail station to pick up a friend. Afternoon weekday but entry ramp/road nearly empty.

Encountered a multiple lane security barrier, manned (and womanned) by about 10 "private security" personnel. Note I'm only on the way from the A406 N.Circular to a B.R. station!

Was made to stop.

Told to switch off engine and get out of the car.

Asked all sorts of questions, couched in pidgin English too -

why are you here?
who are you?
where do you live?
how long have you lived in the country? (this was particularly piquant, given that the questoner could barely speak the language)
where (are) you goin'?
why (are) you goin' there?
what's in your car? (incredible question. Mainly air, actually)
open the boot (no please, or do you mind)
what's this electrical equipment (portable battery booster)?
why have it in the boot when the battery is in the engine? (duuuh)?
what is this? (the brainy guy couldn't recognise the spare tyre/wheel, in the recess where it should be)
why so many books carried? (was going to drop off a lot to a charity shop) (Dangerous things, books!)
etc.

Not that it should matter, but I was driving a 5-7 year old executive car, MLP £45K, good condition, innocuous colour, nothing unusual. I belong to the majority racial group in the UK (at least, I think so). I'm male and in the 45-55 age group. Dressed neatly and conservatively., I'm an atheist and accordingly was not dressed up as a religious fruitcake.

My objection is not so much with all this OTT stuff - but that while this genius was interrogating me, and his colleagues chatting with each other in the booths/kiosks, about 10 other cars were waved through. With one exception, they were driven by people who looked as if they belonged to the ethnic group of my interrogator/persecutor. No sign (friendly smile, other token of recognition) they were personally known to this ace team or were regulars.

When I drove back out 15 minutes later, there were no checks at all. But when I dropped my friend off 3 hours later, got (almost) the same stop and search treatment (though to be fair, it was briefer - but enough to leave my friend pretty shaken up).

Post-NuLabour Britain in a nutshell...


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Pinback
post Sun, 15 Apr 2012 - 18:02
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QUOTE (mike848 @ Sun, 15 Apr 2012 - 18:59) *
Post-NuLabour Britain in a nutshell...


Absolutely. Welcome to Harriet Harmans Cultural Marxist PC Police Nanny state.(Its important to recognise this is a cultural marxist state and not a fascist state, huge political difference, same personal effect)

This post has been edited by Pinback: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 - 18:03


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captain swoop
post Sun, 15 Apr 2012 - 18:25
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So what are you going to do about it apart from complain on an internet motoring law site?
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Pinback
post Sun, 15 Apr 2012 - 19:27
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QUOTE (captain swoop @ Sun, 15 Apr 2012 - 19:25) *
So what are you going to do about it apart from complain on an internet motoring law site?



Theres nothing you can do about it, unless the people en masse rise and revolt. Voting will not change anything, and individuals cannot fight the state.


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baggins1234
post Sun, 15 Apr 2012 - 19:36
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QUOTE (captain swoop @ Sun, 15 Apr 2012 - 19:25) *
So what are you going to do about it apart from complain on an internet motoring law site?


Touche!

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Transit man
post Sun, 15 Apr 2012 - 21:37
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Re Mike848 experience, I had a similar episode last year when I had the misfortune to have a job onto the Olympic site, the obviously non British security guy asked to see my passport, which I knew was a requisite for ID when I took the job, I passed it to him & as it was not a British passport, he turned to his colleague & asked if it was acceptable, before he got a reply I was screaming racist at him & I need to see his superior when they let me in without further ado tongue.gif

Bear in mind I am a middle aged white man with a Bristolian accent, as opposed to his poor grasp of the English language.


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Now driving a Mercedes Sprinter, the Transit died of too much work.
Results for last 5 years:-
12 PPC tickets received, 0 paid
2 Council tickets received, 0 paid (both canceled)
2 Nip's in 40 years 1 paid (damn!)
1 SAC, duly educated!

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roythebus
post Mon, 16 Apr 2012 - 08:10
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Do these minimum wage "security officials" REALLY know a) what they're supposed to be looking for and b)what they are doing, apart from upsetting the natives!

There's usually steering wheel swab taken from my car at Eurotunnel in Cheriton every time I go through. I appreciate the tunnel could pose a security risk, but with the number of times I use it (about 20 a year) you'd think my car would clock up on their ANPR as a regular.

I think if I were to be searched at a shopping centre I'd take my business elsewhere. Thank goodness for on-line shopping and local shops!
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jimster
post Mon, 16 Apr 2012 - 09:24
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Personally I don't don't see what all the fuss is about closedeyes.gif

So ..... You are being made to feel that you are the threat to your own country by incomers who can barely speak the lingo!!

Just a small price to pay for a diverse multi cultural UK, that's what we all want .... isn't it?
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mike848
post Mon, 16 Apr 2012 - 10:25
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The friend whom I picked up at Stratford B.R. very visibly/obviously (by features and dress) belongs, fwiw, to the most demonised of the UK's 20th century minority ethnic groups. My friend blanched too at the (milder) treatment meted out to us on my return through Stratford's Checkpoint Charlie.


--------------------
Council parasites, scammerati, clampits, PPC-threatogram-generators, etc. seek only to scam and screw you over. That's what they do.
Courts, cops, PATAS and TPT are there to ensure that while you're being scammed and screwed, it's done ''fairly''. That's what they do.
PePiPoo's here to suggest what to do, and when to do it, frustrating if possible this scamming and screwing of you. That's what we do.
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jdh
post Mon, 16 Apr 2012 - 10:27
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QUOTE (mike848 @ Mon, 16 Apr 2012 - 11:25) *
...the most demonised of the UK's 20th century minority ethnic groups...
White, middle aged, working class single men?
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