Parking penalty charge received at least 26 days after "offence" |
Parking penalty charge received at least 26 days after "offence" |
Tue, 22 Jan 2019 - 13:55
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 43 Joined: 15 Dec 2017 Member No.: 95,566 |
[attachment=61175:PCN.pdf]Good afternoon all
Received a speculative invoice from All Parking Services UK Limited for failure to display a valid permit/ticket in NW2 (Cricklewood). The infringement happened on the 22/12/18, but their letter to me is dated as the 14.01.19 and was received on the 16.01.19, thus far exceeding the 14 day deadline. I have drafted the following two letters as a reply to them and would gladly accept ANY guidance/advice on which is the best one to send, or any alterations that need implementing. I have attached their original letter to me and a google earth picture of the alleged parking infringement location. I am aware the date of the picture is Feb 2018 and I may need to revisit the site to take upto date photos? Many thanks in advance. Bullit VERSION A Dear Sirs, Re: Parking Charge Notice to Registered Keeper – Ref ******** Thank you for your letter dated 14 January 2019. I am challenging this notice on the grounds that your signage was inadequate and your demand does not represent a genuine pre-estimate of any loss and was not a genuine offer of a contract. In this case, I am putting you to strict proof that the signage on which you rely a) Was visible at the location the car was parked and could be reasonably seen by the driver at the time of the event and that signage complies with the DfT recommendations for size, font and illumination b) That the information on the sign was coherent and cogent. I would also put you to strict proof that the claim you are making matches these coherent and cogent terms (if indeed they were). c) I wish you to demonstrate that you have the rights to claim for you losses on this site such as a lease, a contract from the leaseholder or a copy of the Non-Domestic Rating Valuation showing you are conducting a business there and paying rates. Furthermore, The Notice to Keeper was received outside of the 14 day limit imposed under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, and hence you have not met the criteria necessary to hold the Registered Keeper liable for this charge. You must now pursue this with the driver of the vehicle. Any further pursuit of me in connection with this charge will be deemed as harassment and action may be taken against you and your principal accordingly. I would also put you to strict proof that your charge represent a genuine pre-estimate of loss and/or the amount does not represent a penalty whose purpose is to deter. Finally I insist you cancel this charge and confirm the same. Should you disagree with the points above, send a POPLA code so we can have the matter investigated by your industry's ADR. For anything other than a cancellation and a POPLA code, my charge is £60 per reply. Acceptance will be by performance. Yours faithfully, Registered keeper *****************OR VERSION B************************** Dear Sirs, Re: Parking Charge Notice to Registered Keeper – Ref ******* I am writing with regards to your speculative invoice dated 14 January 2018. I am challenging the Parking Charge Notice with the above reference on the following grounds: 1. The Notice to Keeper was received outside of the 14 day limit imposed under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, and hence you have not met the criteria necessary to hold the Registered Keeper liable for this charge. You must now pursue this with the driver of the vehicle. Any further pursuit of me in connection with this charge will be deemed as harassment and action may be taken against you and your principal accordingly. 2. You do not have the legal capacity to offer contracts at the location 3. The sum demanded is a punitive charge and a penalty. The Invoice is a punitive charge and is a penalty disguised as a speculative invoice. 4. The amount that you have demanded cannot possibly represent a genuine pre-estimate of any loss to your company. If it is to be believed that the sum demanded is from an invoice in relation to breach of contract then the sum demanded is not a Genuine Pre-Estimate of Loss. Should you disagree please provide a breakdown of liquidated costs. Of course these cannot include staff wages, uniforms and general businesses expenses which would have been incurred anyway. 5. Your signage was inadequate If you believe differently and that the keeper is indeed liable, send the validation code to refer the matter to POPLA where I will require disclosure of the terms of your contract that you claim to provide land-owner rights. Finally I insist you cancel this charge and confirm the same. Should you disagree with the points above, send a POPLA code so we can have the matter investigated by your industry's ADR. For anything other than a cancellation and a POPLA code, my charge is £60 per reply. Acceptance will be by performance. Yours faithfully, Registered keeper This post has been edited by Bullit70: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 - 14:24
Attached File(s)
PCN__1_.pdf ( 78.68K )
Number of downloads: 87
Roman_Way__1_.pdf ( 254.41K ) Number of downloads: 76 |
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Tue, 22 Jan 2019 - 13:55
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Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 17:03
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#21
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Member Group: Members Posts: 43 Joined: 15 Dec 2017 Member No.: 95,566 |
Thanks Manxred for your detailed reply. I am fully aware that the Parking company issue the PCN to the R.K. having obtained the details from DVLA and that the RK can refuse to name the driver. That is where I am now and will send the template letter to the parking company. The point I was trying to make earlier, badly!, is once the RK has made the parking company aware s/he will not be providing the details of the driver and will be invoicing the parking company for each subsequent reply, the RK and therefore the driver are in the clear, so to speak?
Sorry for all the questions, it just makes me very anxious. |
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Thu, 24 Jan 2019 - 08:18
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#22
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,687 Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Member No.: 15,642 |
No, your invoice scheme will not work. You have no contract and no consideration.
NO, the RK is not "in the clear". If they want to they can still take the Keeper to court, in the hopes the Keeper gets anxxious about a fairly straightforward if time consuming orocess, and is panicked into paying. The driver is in the clear unless the Keeper slips up and names them. |
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Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 16:02
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#23
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Member Group: Members Posts: 43 Joined: 15 Dec 2017 Member No.: 95,566 |
Good afternoon
Received a letter from ZZPS, who are now acting on behalf of their client, All Parking Services. The balance owed is now £170 and now includes late payment and debt recovery charges. They kindly mention the following information; A recent Supreme Court ruling (ParkingEye v Beavis) has confirmed that a Parking Charge issued on private land is enforceable and the Parking Charge does not breach the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. We are instructed to continue to pursue the matter in the absence of any contact from you. Do I continue to ignore all correspondence? Many thanks in advance. |
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Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 16:47
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#24
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Member Group: Members Posts: 9,985 Joined: 20 Aug 2008 Member No.: 21,992 |
Ignore everything EXCEPT:
1. A Letter before claim from the parking company themselves or a legal firm representing them 2. An actual court claim form. In either of the above come back here for the appropriate advice. -------------------- Sometimes I use big words I don't understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.
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Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 19:00
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#25
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Member Group: Members Posts: 43 Joined: 15 Dec 2017 Member No.: 95,566 |
Many thanks ManxRed.
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Fri, 26 Apr 2019 - 12:10
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#26
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Member Group: Members Posts: 43 Joined: 15 Dec 2017 Member No.: 95,566 |
Good afternoon all
Received the attached letter, but only seen it today, as I was away. Ignore or need to action? I'm aware the 14 days have expired! Many thanks in advance. This post has been edited by Bullit70: Fri, 26 Apr 2019 - 12:20
Attached File(s)
20190426074657223.pdf ( 68.64K )
Number of downloads: 28
20190426074657223.pdf ( 68.64K ) Number of downloads: 27 |
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Fri, 26 Apr 2019 - 15:50
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#27
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,126 Joined: 31 Jan 2018 Member No.: 96,238 |
QDR has its debt collector hat on and can be ignored
Terms like "may recommend court action" are typical debt collector language A Letter Before Claim won't leave any doubt that court action will be the next step |
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Sat, 4 May 2019 - 13:41
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#28
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Member Group: Members Posts: 43 Joined: 15 Dec 2017 Member No.: 95,566 |
Hi All
Weekly letter from our friends attached! Action required or ignore? Thanks
Attached File(s)
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Sat, 4 May 2019 - 14:00
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#29
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17,088 Joined: 8 Mar 2013 Member No.: 60,457 |
Just another threatening letter from a debt collector. Note that they will be recommending to their client to commence legal proceedings. Just hoping that you will be frightened enough to pay
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Sat, 4 May 2019 - 14:21
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#30
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Member Group: Members Posts: 43 Joined: 15 Dec 2017 Member No.: 95,566 |
Thanks Ostell.
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Sat, 4 May 2019 - 15:25
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#31
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Member Group: Members Posts: 277 Joined: 29 Aug 2017 Member No.: 93,755 |
ostell
Would it be worth bullitts time to reply to the next letter telling them to refer the matter back to their client as the RK cannot be held liable, due to their failure to adhere to Sect 9 parts x,x,y.z) of POFA 2012 and that they will not be releasing the name of the driver whom they should be contacting. I also note that they have omitted to 'invite' the RK ( as per POFA sect 9) and have dais the RK 'should' tell them. Another win point at POPLA ( but keep that in reserve until they give you a popla code) Bullitt have a look at Sect 9 and see how much they have failed to comply with. This post has been edited by bobthesod: Sat, 4 May 2019 - 15:30 |
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Sun, 5 May 2019 - 21:38
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#32
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Member Group: Members Posts: 43 Joined: 15 Dec 2017 Member No.: 95,566 |
Bobthesod
Thank you very much for taking the time to reply and pass on your input. Very much appreciated. |
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Mon, 6 May 2019 - 10:39
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#33
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Member Group: Members Posts: 43 Joined: 15 Dec 2017 Member No.: 95,566 |
Keeper Liability and POFA 2012 explained
2. For ANPR tickets 7. A notice to keeper must be served not later than 14 days after the vehicle was parked As the "invoice" was received after the 14th day, does this void their claim? |
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Mon, 6 May 2019 - 12:32
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#34
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17,088 Joined: 8 Mar 2013 Member No.: 60,457 |
It doesn't void their claim against the driver but it does void their claim against the keeper
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