PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice Support health workers

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Unique situation - Should I 'negotiate'? (Debt recovery stage)
LifeInTheBusLane
post Mon, 14 May 2018 - 09:56
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 69
Joined: 23 Mar 2017
Member No.: 91,052



Hello!

I'm in quite an interesting situation which I will summarise best I can:


I moved into private accommodation in July '17 (privately renting through letting agency).

Carpark is permit-only (UKPC)

Letting agent failed to provide parking permit for first week of tenancy.

I got two parking tickets in this time.

Appealed, nothing, contacted letting agent, landowners, landlord, nothing.

Landlord happens to be involved in local politics so contacted my MP who was very helpful and basically told them to just pay up.

However they're only willing to pay the original amount (£100 each)

Since it's at Debt Recovery Stage now (Zenith) they want £160 per ticket.



So my question is - is there any way I can negotiate with UKPC directly and pay the original amounts (£100). My landlord will then cover the cost and I'll get it deducted from my rent.



If anyone has any experience with this that would be great! I was also wondering if perhaps before court action is considered whether they offer to let me pay at the original £100 rate.


Thank you!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
2 Pages V   1 2 >  
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 19)
Advertisement
post Mon, 14 May 2018 - 09:56
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
StuartBu
post Mon, 14 May 2018 - 10:04
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 6,178
Joined: 1 Jan 2013
From: Glasgow
Member No.: 59,097



Im a bit confused by your post. You parked there and you got the tickets.
You then say
"Landlord happens to be involved in local politics so contacted my MP who was very helpful and basically told THEMto just pay up.

However THEY'RE only willing to pay the original amount (£100 each)"
so who are you referring to by THEM and THEY'RE?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Redivi
post Mon, 14 May 2018 - 10:07
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4,126
Joined: 31 Jan 2018
Member No.: 96,238



Never contact Debt Recovery Plus alias Zenith

What does your lease say about parking ?

Your landlord was extremely stupid to employ UKPC
As this example shows, the company makes its money, not by improving the parking facilities but by demanding extortionate payments from residents who are fully entitled to park

Instead of paying UKPC, your landlord should be telling the company to cancel the parking notices and to white-list your car
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
LifeInTheBusLane
post Mon, 14 May 2018 - 10:13
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 69
Joined: 23 Mar 2017
Member No.: 91,052



Hi Stuart, sorry for the confusion. Basically the landlord is willing to cover the cost of these fines. Don't ask me why. I didn't ask they just offered to "make it go away". I'm confident that if the landlord put pressure on the landowners they could get the fine cancelled but for whatever reason they won't do this. My local MP told my landlord to pay is what I was trying to say.


Redvi - There are 3 people involved in the chain. Landowners (who contracted UKPC) - then my landlord who owns the flat - and the letting agency who are renting to me. My lease with the letting agency says nothing about parking. I haven't been able to see the lease between my landlord and the landowners and they are not willing to provide this (And I've tried multiple times to get a copy)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Redivi
post Mon, 14 May 2018 - 10:23
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4,126
Joined: 31 Jan 2018
Member No.: 96,238



Your MP clearly missed the debate in Parliament that discussed how the parking industry is rotten all the way through

UKPC is particularly disreputable with a long track record of issuing parking notices on public roads and sending fake photographs
It's currently suspended from access to the DVLA keeper database for yet another example of bad behaviour

What is the parking arrangement ?
Do you have an allocated space ?

Signs placed by a parking company cannot trump your lease
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
LifeInTheBusLane
post Mon, 14 May 2018 - 10:39
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 69
Joined: 23 Mar 2017
Member No.: 91,052



I know I could probably fight it if it went to court but to be perfectly honest I'd rather just have my landlord pay the fines so I don't have to deal with any more stress.


Do you think it would be possible for me to negotiate with UKPC directly to get the charge back down to the original £100?


Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Mon, 14 May 2018 - 10:39
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56,198
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



If you want to have fun with UKPC rack up a few tickets now while cannot access DVLA, you may even be able to find out who's issuing them as usually a 'nosey neighbour' type is on a kick back for issuing them.
http://www.ukparkingcontrol.com/Self-Ticketing-Service

I don't have a UKPC car park near me :-( .

When it comes to 'debt recovery stage', this is meaningless with respect to private parking tickets, they have no more power than I do to right to you and beg you to pay me, please.... pretty please ..... pretty please with cherries on top........

If you pay (or someone pays for you) you lark yourself as a soft target for extra attention, much better to play hard ball back.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Mon, 14 May 2018 - 10:40


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
LifeInTheBusLane
post Mon, 14 May 2018 - 11:11
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 69
Joined: 23 Mar 2017
Member No.: 91,052



I missed the POPLA deadline though so I kind of gave up on fighting it. My landlord has really messed me around so I was quite content with letting them pay the fines themselves. However, since they are only willing to pay the original £100 charges it leaves me out of pocket still.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
kommando
post Mon, 14 May 2018 - 11:15
Post #9


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4,167
Joined: 6 Oct 2012
Member No.: 57,558



If the landlord pays it marks you out as a soft mark and liable for more tickets, fighting marks you as a difficult to deal with and so less likely. Really depends on the lease/rental agreement as a silly sets of signs cannot overrule a lease unless the lease has given the rights away.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
LifeInTheBusLane
post Mon, 14 May 2018 - 11:19
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 69
Joined: 23 Mar 2017
Member No.: 91,052



This has been the issue though - I can't get a copy of the lease. It's the lease between the landlord and the landowners that matters, I believe. My tenancy agreement has no reference to parking.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Mon, 14 May 2018 - 11:22
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56,198
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



You can almost certainly get it from the land registry for a small fee.

Your tenancy doesn't have to mention parking, there doesn't appear any doubt you are entitled to park, so if there is no mention of permits, then none are required. I bet it mentions quiet enjoyment though?


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Redivi
post Mon, 14 May 2018 - 11:25
Post #12


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4,126
Joined: 31 Jan 2018
Member No.: 96,238



If the landlord pays it marks you out as a soft mark and liable for more tickets; fighting marks you as a difficult to deal with and so less likely.

Absolutely

Was the tenancy advertised with parking ?

Do you have your own space or is it a communal area ?

Let's see a picture of the UKPC sign




Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
LifeInTheBusLane
post Mon, 14 May 2018 - 11:35
Post #13


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 69
Joined: 23 Mar 2017
Member No.: 91,052



The tenancy was advertised with parking, yes.

Communal car park.

Here is the sign - https://imgur.com/a/eQ69KEE

There's also one at the entrance that says "Permit Holders Only"
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Redivi
post Mon, 14 May 2018 - 11:38
Post #14


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4,126
Joined: 31 Jan 2018
Member No.: 96,238



The parking is authorised by the tenancy agreement, not the permit
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
LifeInTheBusLane
post Mon, 14 May 2018 - 11:52
Post #15


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 69
Joined: 23 Mar 2017
Member No.: 91,052



Even if it doesn't specifically say this in the tenancy agreement?

I've actually just purchased the leasehold document through the Land Registry site. Thanks Redivi! Not entirely sure what I'm looking for though..

Okay just found this in the lease -

"(iii) No noisome noxious or offensive trade shall be carried on upon
the land."

That's all I need to fight this, right?

And this from the freehold lease -

"The parts of the land affected thereby are subject to the leases set
out in the schedule of leases hereto and to such rights of drainage,
passage of electricity, gas, water soil and support, rights to use
gardens, pleasure grounds, drives, paths forecourts and communal hall,
rights to park on allocated space and rights of egress and access over
driveways and other rights as are granted by those leases."
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nosferatu1001
post Mon, 14 May 2018 - 12:19
Post #16


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 28,687
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Member No.: 15,642



That isnt permission> By obvious construction that is a restriction - you cannot carry out ... trade on the land

"rights to park on allocated space and rights of egress and access over driveways and other rights as are granted by those leases.""
So you nee to sho2w the space is allocated.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
whjohnson
post Mon, 14 May 2018 - 12:30
Post #17


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 442
Joined: 14 Feb 2015
Member No.: 75,738



Nothing there to say that you HAVE to display a permit in order to be able to park.
So, nothing further to worry about.
Do you actually have a designated numbered parking space? You have said that it is 'communal'.

No permit required by your lease/tenancy agreement means that you don't owe any of them a penny in reality.

UKPC are currently barred from gaining driver/keeper information from the DVLA, so go get some more tickets and stop worrying.

Your landlord has been given duff advice, because if he pays up, they'll just keep coming back for more.

I would write to your landlord, the landholder and even copy in your MP.
Tell them you will not be paying a penny for something which you already entitled to via your lease/tenancy agreement.
If they disagree, then ask them for evidence by way of copies of land documents they hold which state such.

So stop worrying - they can't touch you for a penny other than your rent.

This post has been edited by whjohnson: Mon, 14 May 2018 - 12:32
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
LifeInTheBusLane
post Mon, 14 May 2018 - 12:57
Post #18


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 69
Joined: 23 Mar 2017
Member No.: 91,052



Thank you for the advice.

I've already been in contact with my MP (as my landlord is a local Councillor) - As far as I can tell the MP put pressure on the landlord to pay just to make this "go away".

The spaces are definitely not allocated. There are no markings or numbers. It's just a stone/gravel car park area.


I'd love to write to the landowner and tell 'em what for - but I'm just not sure what rights I have given how far down the chain I am. When I tried to speak to them initially they basically said they're not listening since it's not my name on the lease.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nosferatu1001
post Mon, 14 May 2018 - 13:24
Post #19


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 28,687
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Member No.: 15,642



Then you tell your MP to answer why the debate on this w\s something he wasnt aware of - the Bill has cross party support and described the PPCs in lovely terms, including "scam"!

Is there anything covering the communal spaces? As there doesnt appear to be any right to use communical parking, not in the sections we've seen.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
LifeInTheBusLane
post Mon, 14 May 2018 - 13:38
Post #20


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 69
Joined: 23 Mar 2017
Member No.: 91,052



Weirdly my MP was one of the first to support the bill... And yet does not appear to want to fight this.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V   1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Friday, 29th March 2024 - 06:02
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.
IPS Driver Error

IPS Driver Error

There appears to be an error with the database.
You can try to refresh the page by clicking here