Unique situation - Should I 'negotiate'? (Debt recovery stage) |
Unique situation - Should I 'negotiate'? (Debt recovery stage) |
Mon, 14 May 2018 - 09:56
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 69 Joined: 23 Mar 2017 Member No.: 91,052 |
Hello!
I'm in quite an interesting situation which I will summarise best I can: I moved into private accommodation in July '17 (privately renting through letting agency). Carpark is permit-only (UKPC) Letting agent failed to provide parking permit for first week of tenancy. I got two parking tickets in this time. Appealed, nothing, contacted letting agent, landowners, landlord, nothing. Landlord happens to be involved in local politics so contacted my MP who was very helpful and basically told them to just pay up. However they're only willing to pay the original amount (£100 each) Since it's at Debt Recovery Stage now (Zenith) they want £160 per ticket. So my question is - is there any way I can negotiate with UKPC directly and pay the original amounts (£100). My landlord will then cover the cost and I'll get it deducted from my rent. If anyone has any experience with this that would be great! I was also wondering if perhaps before court action is considered whether they offer to let me pay at the original £100 rate. Thank you! |
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Mon, 14 May 2018 - 09:56
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Mon, 14 May 2018 - 10:04
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 6,178 Joined: 1 Jan 2013 From: Glasgow Member No.: 59,097 |
Im a bit confused by your post. You parked there and you got the tickets.
You then say "Landlord happens to be involved in local politics so contacted my MP who was very helpful and basically told THEMto just pay up. However THEY'RE only willing to pay the original amount (£100 each)" so who are you referring to by THEM and THEY'RE? |
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Mon, 14 May 2018 - 10:07
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,126 Joined: 31 Jan 2018 Member No.: 96,238 |
Never contact Debt Recovery Plus alias Zenith
What does your lease say about parking ? Your landlord was extremely stupid to employ UKPC As this example shows, the company makes its money, not by improving the parking facilities but by demanding extortionate payments from residents who are fully entitled to park Instead of paying UKPC, your landlord should be telling the company to cancel the parking notices and to white-list your car |
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Mon, 14 May 2018 - 10:13
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 69 Joined: 23 Mar 2017 Member No.: 91,052 |
Hi Stuart, sorry for the confusion. Basically the landlord is willing to cover the cost of these fines. Don't ask me why. I didn't ask they just offered to "make it go away". I'm confident that if the landlord put pressure on the landowners they could get the fine cancelled but for whatever reason they won't do this. My local MP told my landlord to pay is what I was trying to say.
Redvi - There are 3 people involved in the chain. Landowners (who contracted UKPC) - then my landlord who owns the flat - and the letting agency who are renting to me. My lease with the letting agency says nothing about parking. I haven't been able to see the lease between my landlord and the landowners and they are not willing to provide this (And I've tried multiple times to get a copy) |
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Mon, 14 May 2018 - 10:23
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,126 Joined: 31 Jan 2018 Member No.: 96,238 |
Your MP clearly missed the debate in Parliament that discussed how the parking industry is rotten all the way through
UKPC is particularly disreputable with a long track record of issuing parking notices on public roads and sending fake photographs It's currently suspended from access to the DVLA keeper database for yet another example of bad behaviour What is the parking arrangement ? Do you have an allocated space ? Signs placed by a parking company cannot trump your lease |
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Mon, 14 May 2018 - 10:39
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 69 Joined: 23 Mar 2017 Member No.: 91,052 |
I know I could probably fight it if it went to court but to be perfectly honest I'd rather just have my landlord pay the fines so I don't have to deal with any more stress.
Do you think it would be possible for me to negotiate with UKPC directly to get the charge back down to the original £100? |
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Mon, 14 May 2018 - 10:39
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
If you want to have fun with UKPC rack up a few tickets now while cannot access DVLA, you may even be able to find out who's issuing them as usually a 'nosey neighbour' type is on a kick back for issuing them.
http://www.ukparkingcontrol.com/Self-Ticketing-Service I don't have a UKPC car park near me :-( . When it comes to 'debt recovery stage', this is meaningless with respect to private parking tickets, they have no more power than I do to right to you and beg you to pay me, please.... pretty please ..... pretty please with cherries on top........ If you pay (or someone pays for you) you lark yourself as a soft target for extra attention, much better to play hard ball back. This post has been edited by The Rookie: Mon, 14 May 2018 - 10:40 -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Mon, 14 May 2018 - 11:11
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 69 Joined: 23 Mar 2017 Member No.: 91,052 |
I missed the POPLA deadline though so I kind of gave up on fighting it. My landlord has really messed me around so I was quite content with letting them pay the fines themselves. However, since they are only willing to pay the original £100 charges it leaves me out of pocket still.
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Mon, 14 May 2018 - 11:15
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,167 Joined: 6 Oct 2012 Member No.: 57,558 |
If the landlord pays it marks you out as a soft mark and liable for more tickets, fighting marks you as a difficult to deal with and so less likely. Really depends on the lease/rental agreement as a silly sets of signs cannot overrule a lease unless the lease has given the rights away.
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Mon, 14 May 2018 - 11:19
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 69 Joined: 23 Mar 2017 Member No.: 91,052 |
This has been the issue though - I can't get a copy of the lease. It's the lease between the landlord and the landowners that matters, I believe. My tenancy agreement has no reference to parking.
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Mon, 14 May 2018 - 11:22
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
You can almost certainly get it from the land registry for a small fee.
Your tenancy doesn't have to mention parking, there doesn't appear any doubt you are entitled to park, so if there is no mention of permits, then none are required. I bet it mentions quiet enjoyment though? -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Mon, 14 May 2018 - 11:25
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,126 Joined: 31 Jan 2018 Member No.: 96,238 |
If the landlord pays it marks you out as a soft mark and liable for more tickets; fighting marks you as a difficult to deal with and so less likely.
Absolutely Was the tenancy advertised with parking ? Do you have your own space or is it a communal area ? Let's see a picture of the UKPC sign |
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Mon, 14 May 2018 - 11:35
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 69 Joined: 23 Mar 2017 Member No.: 91,052 |
The tenancy was advertised with parking, yes.
Communal car park. Here is the sign - https://imgur.com/a/eQ69KEE There's also one at the entrance that says "Permit Holders Only" |
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Mon, 14 May 2018 - 11:38
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,126 Joined: 31 Jan 2018 Member No.: 96,238 |
The parking is authorised by the tenancy agreement, not the permit
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Mon, 14 May 2018 - 11:52
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 69 Joined: 23 Mar 2017 Member No.: 91,052 |
Even if it doesn't specifically say this in the tenancy agreement?
I've actually just purchased the leasehold document through the Land Registry site. Thanks Redivi! Not entirely sure what I'm looking for though.. Okay just found this in the lease - "(iii) No noisome noxious or offensive trade shall be carried on upon the land." That's all I need to fight this, right? And this from the freehold lease - "The parts of the land affected thereby are subject to the leases set out in the schedule of leases hereto and to such rights of drainage, passage of electricity, gas, water soil and support, rights to use gardens, pleasure grounds, drives, paths forecourts and communal hall, rights to park on allocated space and rights of egress and access over driveways and other rights as are granted by those leases." |
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Mon, 14 May 2018 - 12:19
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,687 Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Member No.: 15,642 |
That isnt permission> By obvious construction that is a restriction - you cannot carry out ... trade on the land
"rights to park on allocated space and rights of egress and access over driveways and other rights as are granted by those leases."" So you nee to sho2w the space is allocated. |
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Mon, 14 May 2018 - 12:30
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 442 Joined: 14 Feb 2015 Member No.: 75,738 |
Nothing there to say that you HAVE to display a permit in order to be able to park.
So, nothing further to worry about. Do you actually have a designated numbered parking space? You have said that it is 'communal'. No permit required by your lease/tenancy agreement means that you don't owe any of them a penny in reality. UKPC are currently barred from gaining driver/keeper information from the DVLA, so go get some more tickets and stop worrying. Your landlord has been given duff advice, because if he pays up, they'll just keep coming back for more. I would write to your landlord, the landholder and even copy in your MP. Tell them you will not be paying a penny for something which you already entitled to via your lease/tenancy agreement. If they disagree, then ask them for evidence by way of copies of land documents they hold which state such. So stop worrying - they can't touch you for a penny other than your rent. This post has been edited by whjohnson: Mon, 14 May 2018 - 12:32 |
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Mon, 14 May 2018 - 12:57
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 69 Joined: 23 Mar 2017 Member No.: 91,052 |
Thank you for the advice.
I've already been in contact with my MP (as my landlord is a local Councillor) - As far as I can tell the MP put pressure on the landlord to pay just to make this "go away". The spaces are definitely not allocated. There are no markings or numbers. It's just a stone/gravel car park area. I'd love to write to the landowner and tell 'em what for - but I'm just not sure what rights I have given how far down the chain I am. When I tried to speak to them initially they basically said they're not listening since it's not my name on the lease. |
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Mon, 14 May 2018 - 13:24
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,687 Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Member No.: 15,642 |
Then you tell your MP to answer why the debate on this w\s something he wasnt aware of - the Bill has cross party support and described the PPCs in lovely terms, including "scam"!
Is there anything covering the communal spaces? As there doesnt appear to be any right to use communical parking, not in the sections we've seen. |
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Mon, 14 May 2018 - 13:38
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 69 Joined: 23 Mar 2017 Member No.: 91,052 |
Weirdly my MP was one of the first to support the bill... And yet does not appear to want to fight this.
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