Grass verge next to DYL part of highway? |
Grass verge next to DYL part of highway? |
Tue, 21 Aug 2018 - 11:46
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26 Joined: 5 Jan 2018 Member No.: 95,804 |
Hi,
I recently received a PCN for contravention conde 01. I was parked on a grass verge at the time (see photo). I challenged the PCN and stated that I wasn't parked on a DYL, because I wasn't even on the highway. The council claim that: ' The double yellow line restriction covers the highway and as such it runs from the centre of the road to the nearest property boundary which includes all pavements and grass verges.'. I have asked for evidence relating to this claim, however they have yet to provide any... I know that footpath parking is not allowed and can be pursued / enforced in London, however this is not in London it is in Hampshire. My next step is to wait for the NTO and take to Tribunal but... Does the highway include footpaths and verges? My own research suggests that it does not because an awful lot of councils mention it and talk about it being a problem. From what I have read... The fact is that currently there is no national law that makes it an offence for cars to be parked on a footway or verge (outside of London). It is not an offence to park a motor vehicle (other than a Heavy Goods Vehicle (HGV)) on a grass verge or footway unless: * it causes an obstruction * a local byelaw is in force prohibiting it, or * there are waiting restrictions on the road (which also apply to the highway verge). None of the above was applicable in my case, and I wasn't obstructing anything. Any thoughts? |
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Tue, 21 Aug 2018 - 11:46
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Tue, 21 Aug 2018 - 11:58
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,735 Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Member No.: 14,720 |
Looks bang to rights to me.
DYL covers from middle of road to private property line including paths and verges. -------------------- |
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Tue, 21 Aug 2018 - 11:59
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,864 Joined: 2 Aug 2016 Member No.: 86,040 |
If you redact the PCN and post it there might be something wrong with it for technical challenge.
That land looks like highway to me and covered by the DYL as asserted. |
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Tue, 21 Aug 2018 - 11:59
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984, s 142
QUOTE road”— (a) in England and Wales, means any length of highway or of any other road to which the public has access, and includes bridges over which a road passes -------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Tue, 21 Aug 2018 - 12:15
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35,065 Joined: 2 Aug 2008 From: Woking Member No.: 21,551 |
From what I have read... The fact is that currently there is no national law that makes it an offence for cars to be parked on a footway or verge (outside of London). Correct
It is not an offence to park a motor vehicle (other than a Heavy Goods Vehicle (HGV)) on a grass verge or footway unless: * it causes an obstruction * a local byelaw is in force prohibiting it, or * there are waiting restrictions on the road (which also apply to the highway verge). and there were ...that’s what DYL convey. Pay the discount if still available. If not, then post your challenge, their reply and any NTO which you might have received. Are you the registered keeper and are your details up to date? |
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Tue, 21 Aug 2018 - 13:57
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26 Joined: 5 Jan 2018 Member No.: 95,804 |
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Tue, 21 Aug 2018 - 15:56
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35,065 Joined: 2 Aug 2008 From: Woking Member No.: 21,551 |
And the PCN, and the council?
You are making life difficult because we need this information. There is a potential successful grounds of representation depending on the PCN and what happens on 29th and 30th. Don’t ask what this is, post the PCN, both sides less personal info. |
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Tue, 21 Aug 2018 - 16:41
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26 Joined: 5 Jan 2018 Member No.: 95,804 |
Hi, I wasn't trying to make life difficult.
The council is Rushmoor and I can't find the original ticket / PCN. I had it when I wrote to challenge but no idea what I did with it, and I can't find it. |
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Tue, 21 Aug 2018 - 20:12
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
From what I have read... The fact is that currently there is no national law that makes it an offence for cars to be parked on a footway or verge (outside of London). Correct Only if you deposit the car with a crane. While it's not an offence to be parked on a verge or footway, driving the car onto a verge or footway is a criminal offence under section 72 of the Highway Act 1835 and section 34 of the Road Traffic Act 1988, although this can only be enforced by the police and not by councils. Hi, I wasn't trying to make life difficult. The council is Rushmoor and I can't find the original ticket / PCN. I had it when I wrote to challenge but no idea what I did with it, and I can't find it. You can ask the council for a copy. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Tue, 21 Aug 2018 - 22:00
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35,065 Joined: 2 Aug 2008 From: Woking Member No.: 21,551 |
But as the question referred to parked, the comment is correct and, with respect, the interjection is hardly material.
What is more material is this from the council’s policy: the driver or the keeper can challenge the penalty charge. If the challenge is received within 14 days, the discount period is suspended and if the challenge is accepted the penalty charge is cancelled. If it is rejected we may offer another14 days to pay at the discounted rate; Not up to, or any number of days chosen by an officer. It’s 14 or nothing. But it’s not in this case, it’s 12 because they’ve extended it for 14 days from the date of the letter. But it was posted and therefore you had 12 at most. |
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Wed, 22 Aug 2018 - 10:56
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26 Joined: 5 Jan 2018 Member No.: 95,804 |
[i]Not up to, or any number of days chosen by an officer. It’s 14 or nothing. But it’s not in this case, it’s 12 because they’ve extended it for 14 days from the date of the letter. But it was posted and therefore you had 12 at most. Does this mean I can challenge? or Should I just pay? |
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Wed, 22 Aug 2018 - 11:32
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35,065 Joined: 2 Aug 2008 From: Woking Member No.: 21,551 |
Letter dated 13th, deemed served 15th, therefore end of 14-day extended payment period to which they’re oblgated is 28th.
I would wait until 28th. If discount is still available then I’d pay because whether through design or incompetence they’ve extended the discount to their self-imposed limit, so you would have suffered no loss and IMO given the clear contravention no adj would allow an appeal based only on this glitch in the wording of a response to a pre-NTO challenge. BUT, if this glitch translates into reality and you cannot pay the discount on 28th then IMO I’d wait for the NTO and make reps...’procedural impropriety’ |
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Wed, 22 Aug 2018 - 13:27
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26 Joined: 5 Jan 2018 Member No.: 95,804 |
Thanks
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