PCN from Euro Car Parks Options

[carlm90]

Hi everyone, I return to this wonderful forum after a break of receiving PCNs... it served me well last time so thank you in advance! I have recently received a PCN for staying over the 30 minute period of parking. A few things...

During my stay in this car park:

- Shops on lockdown, only essential shops open, I visited and spent over £40 in a transaction. This shop was local to the car park and served the shops in the area.
- Car park used a machine that was coin operated. I wasn't intent on pressing any of the buttons on it to pay for parking and they provided no sanitising options for the buttons

Is there an updated letter to include Coronavirus considerations?

If not I'll send them the normal template with my receipts for purchases in local shops, so they didn't loose any money.

I've included the PCN here:



This post has been edited by carlm90: Mon, 15 Jun 2020 - 15:05

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[Jlc]

Is there an updated letter to include Coronavirus considerations?

The parking company won't care. Parking conditions won't have changed.

If not I'll send them the normal template with my receipts for purchases in local shops, so they didn't loose any money.

Again, they won't care. This is their only way to make money - they probably don't collect the tariff either so will be keen for you to pay this.

You can try all of the above but expect a rejection.

[carlm90]

Is there an updated letter to include Coronavirus considerations?

The parking company won't care. Parking conditions won't have changed.

If not I'll send them the normal template with my receipts for purchases in local shops, so they didn't loose any money.

Again, they won't care. This is their only way to make money - they probably don't collect the tariff either so will be keen for you to pay this.

You can try all of the above but expect a rejection.

If there's going to be a rejection would you say pay it?

[nosferatu1001]

No, otherwise we would have said pay it! ECP rarely do court
If you didnt want to pay, the option was to leave. Sorry but coronavirus isnt a valid excuse here.

BTW theyve shown being outside on an even overcast day there is sufficient UV that the virus cant last 15 minutes...

[carlm90]

No, otherwise we would have said pay it! ECP rarely do court
If you didnt want to pay, the option was to leave. Sorry but coronavirus isnt a valid excuse here.

BTW theyve shown being outside on an even overcast day there is sufficient UV that the virus cant last 15 minutes...

Ok, I've used the parkingcowboys template letter and I've added the following.

If it is your case that that a trespass was committed or that a contract was breached such that your claim is one for damages; please give me a full breakdown of the actual losses which evidences that this parking charge is a true reflection of the damages caused solely by the alleged parking contravention.

Due to the impact of coronavirus all local but essential shops were closed due to the global pandemic. This car park served shops in the local area of which I visited and spent money. I provide proof of this from my bank statement which shows expenditure for shops in the local area that were open. As such you did not make a loss during my use of the car park.


I've then added the two transactions from my bank statement which total over £50.

I've made enquiries about who owns the land and it's the Bank of Scotland. The car park is leased by Maplins who have an empty shop there, now closed down next to Ultimate Outdoors. I won't tell this to them just yet.







Here are the signs in the car park which I took this morning. No sign at the back of where the cars are parked here. My car was in the middle at the time.

My lease company have stated that they have advised ECP that the vehicle is in my possession and that ECP should re-issue the PCN to me for payment or appeal.

This post has been edited by carlm90: Mon, 15 Jun 2020 - 14:54

[ostell]

So the signs are visible at the entrance of the car park warning that it s private and it is pay & display, you saw the conditions sign by the payment machines. Your own bottle of hand sanitizer or rubber gloves would gave helped. Where is your problem?

You've told us all and probably ECP who the driver was.

Your hope would be that they gave not given the invitation to keeper, 9 (2) (e) , in the format prescribed by POFA, nor given a period of parking 9 (2) (a) moving in front of the cameras cannot, by definition, be parking.

Can you contact the stores to see if they will cancel.

Edit:

So it would have helped if you'd told the full story to start with. Were you acting on th NTK issued to your leasing company? Hope you haven't sent anything at all to the ECP. Please say you haven't!! Definitely edit to remove identification of the driver

They will have identified the hirer. Read POFA para 14 and don't send anything till you've answered the questions.

This post has been edited by ostell: Mon, 15 Jun 2020 - 14:11

[carlm90]

I'll re add the PCN above with identification removed (is it ok to leave dates in?)! I'll remove the lease company letter. They have sent my details on to ECP. I was responding to the lease company letter yes, I haven't received a PCN from ECP themselves.

I sent this email to ECP this morning because my flat mate who I no longer live with to prevent him getting anymore mail.

Let's just forget that coronavirus stuff, I was clutching at straws with that.

Hello,

Please direct all future correspondence for this PCN to:

My address

I will be contesting this PCN, I have only just received this on 10th June due to the letter being sent to my old address.

Therefore please allow a short period to write a letter and send it via email to you.

Kind regards,
name

This post has been edited by carlm90: Mon, 15 Jun 2020 - 15:00

[ostell]

Aghhhh... wrong action. You should have waited for the Notice to Hirer addressed to you to arrive.

[carlm90]

Aghhhh... wrong action. You should have waited for the Notice to Hirer addressed to you to arrive.

Doh

What's my next move in this case?

Issue date was 27/5

This post has been edited by carlm90: Mon, 15 Jun 2020 - 15:09

[ostell]

So do the hire company have your correct address? If so then just wait for the Notice to Hirer to arrive. If not check with your friend or get him to onone you if something else arrivesWith the NTH they are supposed to include a copy of the original NTK and a copy of the lease agreement. It is most unusual for them to do this and so they have not complied with POFA and cannot hold the hirer liable.

Basically wait and see what arrives next and come back here.

[carlm90]

So do the hire company have your correct address? If so then just wait for the Notice to Hirer to arrive. If not check with your friend or get him to onone you if something else arrivesWith the NTH they are supposed to include a copy of the original NTK and a copy of the lease agreement. It is most unusual for them to do this and so they have not complied with POFA and cannot hold the hirer liable.

Basically wait and see what arrives next and come back here.

Ok I will wait and come back. Thanks for your advice, I appreciate it.

Hopefully this thread contains no other information that is identifiable now.

[carlm90]

Funnily enough the actual PCN came in the post yesterday to my friend's address.





Nothing else other than the above in the letter.

[ostell]

That's what you should have waited for. With this did you get a copy of the original NTK and a copy of your lease agreement? I will assume no as they usually get it wrong so your appeal is:

Sirs

Ref PCN xxxxx VRM yyyyyy

I am the hirer/keeper of the above vehicle and am in receipt of the PCN you issued. I have no liability on this matter as you have failed to meet the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to supply the additional documents mandated by section 14 (2) (a) of the Act. You cannot therefore transfer liability from the driver at the time to me, the hirer keeper..

There is no legal requirement to identify the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

Any further communication with me on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment. This includes communication from any Debt Collection companies you care to instruct.

Yours etc.


You send the appeal so that it arrives on day19 after the date on the letter so that they can't correct and reissue within the relevant period of 21 days. Get a free certificate of posting from a post office

[carlm90]

That's what you should have waited for. With this did you get a copy of the original NTK and a copy of your lease agreement? I will assume no as they usually get it wrong so your appeal is:

Sirs

Ref PCN xxxxx VRM yyyyyy

I am the hirer/keeper of the above vehicle and am in receipt of the PCN you issued. I have no liability on this matter as you have failed to meet the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to supply the additional documents mandated by section 14 (2) (a) of the Act. You cannot therefore transfer liability from the driver at the time to me, the hirer keeper..

There is no legal requirement to identify the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

Any further communication with me on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment. This includes communication from any Debt Collection companies you care to instruct.

Yours etc.


You send the appeal so that it arrives on day19 after the date on the letter so that they can't correct and reissue within the relevant period of 21 days. Get a free certificate of posting from a post office

No copy of lease agreement in there.

So just to confirm, send the above 19 days after the date of issue of the PCN received yesterday.

So if it was issued on 8th day of month (for example), I post first class on 26th to arrive on 27th of month?

Seeing as I sent that generic email yesterday to notify them of a new address, does this give them any opportunity to reissue or will they just stick with the one they sent to me yesterday? And my email yesterday didn't identify me as the driver.

This post has been edited by carlm90: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 - 10:45

[ostell]

So that it ARRIVES on day 19, so that they can't reject it as out of time. They could reissue to the new address but it still has to have the documents enclosed

And the last sentence of the last post infers the identity of a possible driver. Difficult to write without inadvertently doing that

This post has been edited by ostell: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 - 11:31

[carlm90]

So that it ARRIVES on day 19, so that they can't reject it as out of time. They could reissue to the new address but it still has to have the documents enclosed

And the last sentence of the last post infers the identity of a possible driver. Difficult to write without inadvertently doing that

Understood.

Shall I put my address as my current address now or the one I was previously at? Not sure if that has any impact.

I could argue the toss that I was simply trying to get any further mail redirected to my current address, no liability directly admitted from that email.

I will post it to arrive on 30th of this month which is day 19 of the 21 days. Original letter issued on 11th.

This post has been edited by carlm90: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 - 12:15

[nosferatu1001]

Address now, obviously.

Appeal online. Postal appeal is a bad idea, costs money and may not arrive
Hsa anyone not noticed they dont claim the hirer is liable? Just the driver. So thats the first point of a POPLA appeal, if needed, with the second being that even if they claim the hirer is liable they are deficient because....

[carlm90]

Address now, obviously.

Appeal online. Postal appeal is a bad idea, costs money and may not arrive
Hsa anyone not noticed they dont claim the hirer is liable? Just the driver. So thats the first point of a POPLA appeal, if needed, with the second being that even if they claim the hirer is liable they are deficient because....

Ok, so in that case if I email them would I sent the email on the 21st day?

Thanks for the advice.

This post has been edited by carlm90: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 - 15:02

[carlm90]

Just to clarify, should I post or send an email? If so why one over the other?

[ostell]

Normally I would say post as you can get a certificate of posting from a post office and show you sent it.

Delivery of an email is not, and never has been, guaranteed. You put on the flag to request notification when it arrives in the recipients mail server but sometimes this is blocked

Do both