In The Grove into Ballards Lane (N3) No Right Turn |
In The Grove into Ballards Lane (N3) No Right Turn |
Sat, 9 Jun 2018 - 12:51
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 134 Joined: 3 May 2013 Member No.: 61,605 |
Hi I received the PCN for turning right on the road and wondering if i have any chance to appeal the ticket. I was on holiday from 18th May and only came back on 6th of June.
PCN uploaded at the following location https://photos.app.goo.gl/hUn9NvLsQT2xqhYE9 Thanks for looking and any advise much appreciated. |
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Sat, 9 Jun 2018 - 12:51
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Sat, 9 Jun 2018 - 13:06
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,816 Joined: 20 Dec 2008 Member No.: 24,962 |
GSV link?
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Sat, 9 Jun 2018 - 16:53
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 134 Joined: 3 May 2013 Member No.: 61,605 |
Not sure what you mean by GSV link, but PCN copy available here https://photos.app.goo.gl/hUn9NvLsQT2xqhYE9
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Sat, 9 Jun 2018 - 17:16
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.6037257,-...3312!8i6656
Paragraph 4 of the PCN is wrong. The 28 day period for the issue of a CC and for representations is 28 days beginning with the date of service in this case this would be the 30th of June. What they tell you is that it is the 26th of June That's 4 days they have deprived you of to may a decision and to formulate and submit representations This has both won and lost at adjudication, so your attitude to the risk of the full penalty being at state is crucial -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Sat, 9 Jun 2018 - 18:15
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 2,021 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 Member No.: 59,932 |
I can't take this one to the tribunal as I have the same adjudicator every week and he is against the argument, so it doesn't matter how good an argument I think it is.
-------------------- All advice given by me on PePiPoo is on a pro bono basis (i.e. free). PePiPoo relies on Donations so do donate if you can. Sometimes I will, in addition, personally offer to represent you at London Tribunals (i.e. within greater London only) & if you wish me to I will ask you to make a voluntary donation, if the Appeal is won, directly to the North London Hospice.
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Sat, 9 Jun 2018 - 18:22
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
I can't take this one to the tribunal as I have the same adjudicator every week and he is against the argument, so it doesn't matter how good an argument I think it is. If the OP decides to take the chance and I would. My thinking is save the cost of a cup of coffee a week from now till the date by which you would have to pay and you will save the difference. Plus you get two bites of the cherry the first giving the council a chance to mess up further. I will draft reps and appeal, i am sure Mr M will chip in with advice that will be greatly appreciated -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Sat, 9 Jun 2018 - 18:51
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 134 Joined: 3 May 2013 Member No.: 61,605 |
Hey guys I am happy to take a chance if you guys are chipping in and drafting reps and appeal as I would be struggling with reps and appeal if its down to me on legal basis:(
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Tue, 12 Jun 2018 - 19:28
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 134 Joined: 3 May 2013 Member No.: 61,605 |
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Sun, 17 Jun 2018 - 12:25
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 134 Joined: 3 May 2013 Member No.: 61,605 |
I can't take this one to the tribunal as I have the same adjudicator every week and he is against the argument, so it doesn't matter how good an argument I think it is. Hey Just anxious so chasing to check what is the next action for me on this. Thanks I know i have some time still to represent but wondering if we can get this done unless leaving until the last day. i can understand everyone enjoying weather and World cup but will appreciate if you can help shape the appeal. thanks |
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Sat, 23 Jun 2018 - 20:06
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 134 Joined: 3 May 2013 Member No.: 61,605 |
I can't take this one to the tribunal as I have the same adjudicator every week and he is against the argument, so it doesn't matter how good an argument I think it is. Hey Just anxious so chasing to check what is the next action for me on this. Thanks I know i have some time still to represent but wondering if we can get this done unless leaving until the last day. i can understand everyone enjoying weather and World cup but will appreciate if you can help shape the appeal. thanks Hello again @pastmybest @mrmustard any chance if you guys draft me the representation please or at least point me in the right direction.we have another 4 days before the deadline. Thanks |
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Sat, 23 Jun 2018 - 20:56
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
Sorry yes
I make these representations against the imposition of PCN number xxxxxxxxxx Vehicle registration number aa 23 cde 1:- There was no contravention of a prescribed order. Regulation 18 of The Local Authorities' Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996 requires that before a TMO comes into force and during its life time the authority must place and maintain adequate signage to inform motorists of the restriction created by said order. In this case this has not been done. Concentrating as I was on approach to a junction on looking out for pedestrians and traffic i did not see any signs prohibiting a right turn. Enquires after the event show that there is only one sign placed quite a way from the junction and higher than normal. This renders observation difficult at the least and fails to comply with the regulations rendering the PCN invalid 2:- I make a second point of challenge by way of a collateral challenge under the statutory ground of the penalty charge exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case. This comes about as the PCN is of its self a nullity, it fails to comply with the regulations in that it mis states the time by which representations must be made in stating that these must be made in the 28 day period beginning with the date of notice or a charge certificate may be issued. The regulations allow both for representations and for the issue of a charge certificate, that this time period is 28 days beginning with the date of service. Thus truncating the period in which representations may be made and by advancing the time at which a charge certificate may be issued by a minimum of two days This renders the PCN a nullity and no penalty may be demanded on the back of it -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Sat, 23 Jun 2018 - 22:29
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 134 Joined: 3 May 2013 Member No.: 61,605 |
Sorry yes I make these representations against the imposition of PCN number xxxxxxxxxx Vehicle registration number aa 23 cde 1:- There was no contravention of a prescribed order. Regulation 18 of The Local Authorities' Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996 requires that before a TMO comes into force and during its life time the authority must place and maintain adequate signage to inform motorists of the restriction created by said order. In this case this has not been done. Concentrating as I was on approach to a junction on looking out for pedestrians and traffic i did not see any signs prohibiting a right turn. Enquires after the event show that there is only one sign placed quite a way from the junction and higher than normal. This renders observation difficult at the least and fails to comply with the regulations rendering the PCN invalid 2:- I make a second point of challenge by way of a collateral challenge under the statutory ground of the penalty charge exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case. This comes about as the PCN is of its self a nullity, it fails to comply with the regulations in that it mis states the time by which representations must be made in stating that these must be made in the 28 day period beginning with the date of notice or a charge certificate may be issued. The regulations allow both for representations and for the issue of a charge certificate, that this time period is 28 days beginning with the date of service. Thus truncating the period in which representations may be made and by advancing the time at which a charge certificate may be issued by a minimum of two days This renders the PCN a nullity and no penalty may be demanded on the back of it Hey, you all are great and thanks. I have send across and now finger cross and wait for their response. Great Weekend and Hope everyone's country perform better than expected in the world cup |
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Sat, 14 Jul 2018 - 14:55
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 134 Joined: 3 May 2013 Member No.: 61,605 |
I got the response and they have rejected my representation. So please advise, where we go next from here. Here you can find the response.
Page 1 - https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipPFojw...kJJM0Q5ZGFLRnlB Page 2 - https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipPFojw...kJJM0Q5ZGFLRnlB Page 3 - https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipPFojw...kJJM0Q5ZGFLRnlB |
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Sat, 14 Jul 2018 - 15:55
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
Well they did as expected and failed to consider the technical point, so is it appeal or pay.
-------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Sat, 14 Jul 2018 - 18:37
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 134 Joined: 3 May 2013 Member No.: 61,605 |
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Tue, 24 Jul 2018 - 09:25
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 134 Joined: 3 May 2013 Member No.: 61,605 |
Well they did as expected and failed to consider the technical point, so is it appeal or pay. I will just follow your and @MrMustard advise on this. Happy to take a chance if you guys can advise appropriately It seems @MrMustard is busy, so my friend @PastMyBest, I will follow your advise and do exactly what you would have done if in my situation. Thanks for advising so far and taking a time out from your busy schedule. |
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Tue, 24 Jul 2018 - 10:05
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 2,021 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 Member No.: 59,932 |
sorry I was away for a week and as I lose the 28 day argument because I have the same adjudicator most weeks with a firm view against me, it is better that I don't get involved.
-------------------- All advice given by me on PePiPoo is on a pro bono basis (i.e. free). PePiPoo relies on Donations so do donate if you can. Sometimes I will, in addition, personally offer to represent you at London Tribunals (i.e. within greater London only) & if you wish me to I will ask you to make a voluntary donation, if the Appeal is won, directly to the North London Hospice.
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Tue, 24 Jul 2018 - 10:21
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
I would appeal and be quite firm on the fail to consider. They might not like the points you make but they have to consider them Keep the thread live I will look in the next few days if no one else does
-------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Tue, 24 Jul 2018 - 11:16
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 134 Joined: 3 May 2013 Member No.: 61,605 |
I would appeal and be quite firm on the fail to consider. They might not like the points you make but they have to consider them Keep the thread live I will look in the next few days if no one else does Okay so lets appeal and will wait for your advise. @MrMustard you did help me to win one of my other appeal i had last month (model not mentioned in the renting agreement), so you saved so many money for the general public like me. Thanks... |
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Sat, 28 Jul 2018 - 16:44
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 134 Joined: 3 May 2013 Member No.: 61,605 |
I would appeal and be quite firm on the fail to consider. They might not like the points you make but they have to consider them Keep the thread live I will look in the next few days if no one else does Okay so lets appeal and will wait for your advise. @MrMustard you did help me to win one of my other appeal i had last month (model not mentioned in the renting agreement), so you saved so many money for the general public like me. Thanks... Just checking if someone can think of any other points to appeal on apart from the two already mentioned before. @PastMyBest any idea, when we will be ready to send the appeal across:) |
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