[NIP Wizard] 2 speed camera NIPS within 30 mins Options

[gjgj]

NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - August 2020
Date of the NIP: - 8 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 10 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - Sydenham Hill nr Mountacre CI N/B SE26 (4465)
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Received 2 NIPs for doing - 24mph in 20mph limit, and the same speed in the opposite direction on the return leg of my journey just 27 minutes later.

I was dropping some essential equipment off at a school and am obviously disappointed to expect 6 points on my licence for what was essentially one journey, in the space of less than 30 mins.

I have viewed photos of the alleged offence online including a recent 'calibration certificate' for the speed camera. I am surprised to have gone over 20mph if i did, as I knew it was there, but of course I can't prove anything.

Can I reasonably claim that I should only be nicked once for the offence as it was one journey?

I believe if it had been 23mph, no action would be taken, so it is surely a less serious offence than a higher speed, and a 200 quid fine and 6 points doesn't seem appropriate. ( If i've done the same thing again this week another 6 points will be added making 12 and a ban for 4mph!)

I have attended a speed awareness course in the last 3 years so I don't expect to be offered another one.
G


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:

• The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.
  
  You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Fri, 04 Sep 2020 00:04:40 +0000

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[Kickaha]

What Was your previous speed awareness course for?

I think that the 20 mph course (nsac20) is separate from the 30mph course.

[Logician]

There is little chance of the two offences being treated as one since you were going in the opposite direction the second time.

As Kickaha says, unless the previous course was also for a 20mph offence, you should get one course and one fixed penalty of £100 + 3 points.

[The Rookie]

I believe if it had been 23mph, no action would be taken, so it is surely a less serious offence than a higher speed

Indeed, and because of that you qualify for a course or a fixed penalty, take it to court and you would get a lesser sentence than for a higher speed, you have what you wish for.

a 200 quid fine and 6 points doesn't seem appropriate.

Appropriate or not, 3 points is the minimum for committing this criminal offence, as for £200, you are free to take it to court and argue that the £100/offence is inappropriate, however the penalty will probably end up much higher.

If you believe the penalties are that inappropriate it's a political matter you need to take up with your MP to levy for lower minimum points and a graduated fixed penalty for speeding such that the penalty is adjusted for speed.

Totting bans are meant to discourage habitual law breakers who otherwise could continue to break the law and just pay fines, the answer is not to do so, noting you've already used up 3 lives.

When I'm in urban environments I use my cars speed limiter, then I can drive round normally and not have to look at the speedo at all safe in the knowledge I won't be breaking the law.

[gjgj]

Thanks for the replies.

There is little chance of the two offences being treated as one since you were going in the opposite direction the second time.

As Kickaha says, unless the previous course was also for a 20mph offence, you should get one course and one fixed penalty of £100 + 3 points.

If I can do a speed course (+3 points and £100 fine) that's easier for me to take on the chin. My previous course was for 30mph I think. I understood I couldn't do another one.

Of course there was no deterrent for me in the first NIP because I received the 2nd one at the same time. In this situation I think a conditional offer of 'taking the other offence into account' would be reasonable, but less lucrative for the authorities of course. Strangely, I have never had any penalty points on my licence in years of driving.

I have a speed limiter (alarm) on my car, but where I live there are 30mph and 20mph areas mixed together so I would have to set it at 20mph permanently. An option of course, along with a man with a red flag walking in front of my car...

[Logician]

You could not do another course of the same type for offences within three years, but there is now a special 20mph course, so you could be offered one of those.

[Slapdash]

My speed limiter -bmw - has 1 and 5 mph increment at the flick of a switch on the steering wheel. I imagine most do and I have become quite adept at flicking it the relevant number of times as limits change.

Sadly unlike rookies it is not perfect since it won't prevent the car exceeding it by "natural forces" eg a hill. It does start to bong though after a little while and about 5 mph.

[gjgj]

What Was your previous speed awareness course for?

I think that the 20 mph course (nsac20) is separate from the 30mph course.

So I have been offered 2 X fixed penalties of £100+ 3 penalty points each (6 PTS £200 total).

No offer of a speed awareness course. I called to politely enquire, but apparently I am not eligible as I have previously done a course even though it was not 20mph zone as this penalty was. They are now 'amalgamated' she said.

So it seems if you have attended a speed awareness for general speeding in the last 3 years you cannot attend another one even if it is for 20mph course. Boo hoo😢.

[NewJudge]

No offer of a speed awareness course. I called to politely enquire, but apparently I am not eligible as I have previously done a course even though it was not 20mph zone as this penalty was. They are now 'amalgamated' she said.

So it seems if you have attended a speed awareness for general speeding in the last 3 years you cannot attend another one even if it is for 20mph course. Boo hoo😢.

Might be because courses are now delivered online and they might only have developed one course.

[speedfighter23]

20 MPH courses are no longer continued I believe, this is what they told me last year during my motorway awareness course

[The Rookie]

It appears that while adding other courses some have indeed fallen by the wayside.

https://www.ndors.org.uk/courses/

[Logician]

Yes, the statistics section contains this comment: NSAC 20 = National Speed Awareness Course for 20 mph (discontinued and absorbed into NSAC November 2018)