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PCN - Yellow Box Junction 31j
DrWolf
post Sun, 20 May 2018 - 12:12
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Hello,

I've received a charge for entering and stopping in a yellow box junction when prohibited. This is my first charge of the sort and I do not believe that I was strictly in the wrong and would appreciate some help with the matter.

I've attached the letter as well as the video which should provide enough information. From the video alone, you can see that I was well into the box before the red car pulled out of the left-hand side junction and cut me off, causing me to be stuck behind him inside of the box. As the lines clearly show, I had right of way and had to brake quite suddenly as he pulled out with no notice. If he hadn't done this, there would have been ample amount of space for me to get ahead of the box.

Sidenote: the printing on the letter is a bit messed up and the penalty charge isn't printed in the correct field, making it unreadable.


Video link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8w6c3vxrer8zot2/2...20_01-38-35.mp4

Should I contest this? How likely am I to win?

Thank you.
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post Sun, 20 May 2018 - 12:12
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stamfordman
post Sun, 20 May 2018 - 13:04
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I would certainly appeal this. You can't be expected to give way to the side road traffic forever. You could though have moved out of the box on the right.

Redbridge has been printing PCNs out of sync for some time but this won't win on its own (or at least we seen one refused on this).





This post has been edited by stamfordman: Sun, 20 May 2018 - 13:12
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MrChips
post Sun, 20 May 2018 - 13:11
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Agreed.

The lines of the box junction also extend beyond the junction, although you probably would have been just inside even if they didn't. There is a diagonal line across the box which you end up with each of your rear wheels straddling which would be closer to marking the boundary of the junction.
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PASTMYBEST
post Sun, 20 May 2018 - 15:01
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Very good chance of winning


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All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Mad Mick V
post Sun, 20 May 2018 - 15:25
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What a stupid layout--can't they afford traffic lights with all the penalty income? Probably not if they have to give up this little earner.
I am with the others--this is a winner but you'll probably have to go to adjudication--it is Redbridge!

Mick
p.s. excellent constraint. I would have been out of the car having words (most of which would be politically incorrect).

This post has been edited by Mad Mick V: Sun, 20 May 2018 - 15:25
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DancingDad
post Sun, 20 May 2018 - 18:19
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You did all you should have.
Waited till clear exit and a little more, allowing two cars to join.
Then cut up by a twonker who pulled out when they shouldn't.
Travesty to cop a PCN and it should be cancelled.
Whether it will is a different matter
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stamfordman
post Sun, 20 May 2018 - 18:30
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I converted the video into an animated GIF - can you all see it play in post #2?

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PASTMYBEST
post Sun, 20 May 2018 - 19:03
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I see the printer is still out of alignment so the PCN does not show the penalty

I see the printer is still out of alignment so the PCN does not show the penalty


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DrWolf
post Sun, 20 May 2018 - 20:53
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Thanks, everyone. I'll put together an appeal immediately. The sooner it is sorted the better. How long do you typically have to wait for these things?

QUOTE (stamfordman @ Sun, 20 May 2018 - 14:04) *
I would certainly appeal this. You can't be expected to give way to the side road traffic forever. You could though have moved out of the box on the right.

Redbridge has been printing PCNs out of sync for some time but this won't win on its own (or at least we seen one refused on this).

I noticed that, but I didn't want to cause more problems and potentially interrupt the flow of traffic coming the other way. I didn't expect the misprint to affect the outcome, but it's certainly something they should fix!

Also, thanks for converting the video into gif smile.gif.

QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Sun, 20 May 2018 - 16:25) *
p.s. excellent constraint. I would have been out of the car having words (most of which would be politically incorrect).

Haha. I am not a very angry driver (or person in general) but he certainly did get a few honks out of me.

This post has been edited by DrWolf: Sun, 20 May 2018 - 20:53
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PASTMYBEST
post Sun, 20 May 2018 - 21:03
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oh the misprint can be very important. The PCN does not contain information that the regulations say it MUST it is therefore an invalid document. But that's for another day your grounds re the red car are very strong. Unfortunately the councils get to keep the money so are unlikely to cancel and you will need an adjudicator to find for you


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stamfordman
post Sun, 20 May 2018 - 21:06
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Post a draft here first.

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Mr Meldrew
post Mon, 21 May 2018 - 08:36
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Key case:

QUOTE
But what, it might be said, about the 100th case where having followed this advice to the letter the motorist is in the process of heading across the junction to his free space awaiting him only to find that it is snatched from before his eyes by, for example, a vehicle changing lanes without warning, or a vehicle forcing its way into the junction from a side road? That, it is argued, cannot be right In many of these situations what will cause the motorist to brake will he the presence of what is at that point a moving vehicle and the difficulty will not arise; the motorist has a defence.

However in those very rare cases where this would not apply I do not shrink from saying that contravention does in law occur but that, as in all cases of strict liability, this situation has to be dealt with by the exercise of discretion on the part of the Council, the equivalent of deciding not to prosecute or the grant of an absolute discharge in a criminal case.


https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/sites/de...14031218240.pdf


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I do tend to have a bee in my bonnet re failing to consider and fairness
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Mad Mick V
post Fri, 25 May 2018 - 07:24
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From Wednesday:-

2180139424

The issue of this appeal is whether the said vehicle entered and stopped within the box junction there owing to the presence of another stationary vehicle. It is a contravention if a person causes their vehicle to enter a box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles.
I have looked at the on-line evidence.
I find that when the appellant's vehicle came to the box junction it had clear space ahead but was effectively cut up by the vehicle emerging from the left, which did not wait. The appellant's vehicle, I find, had right of way.
I will therefore allow the appeal.

Mick
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