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Meter destroyed?
misteral
post Fri, 29 Dec 2017 - 12:16
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Birmingham CC

Parked in Granville Street overnight, got a ticket 11.41am next day, 27/12/17. (Parked without clearly displaying a valid pay & display ticket or voucher)

There are 12 parking bays in a line, around 75 meters in total. At one end of the bays is a sign with arrow pointing right 'Pay at meter, Display Ticket'.


Attached Image



At the other end is a sign with the arrow pointing left with the same message.


Attached Image



In the middle is a what looks like it could be a destroyed meter but could actually be anything.


Attached Image



There are no indications anywhere in sight of the days or times when parking restrictions apply. I have since found out it is 8am to 6pm and free outwith these times and also on Sundays/Bank Holidays

Saw the CEO writing me a ticket. I asked him where I was meant to pay and he shrugged and pointed to another street, around the corner.

So what should one do here? Worth an appeal?


Cheers for any advice

This post has been edited by misteral: Fri, 29 Dec 2017 - 12:20
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post Fri, 29 Dec 2017 - 12:16
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cp8759
post Tue, 16 Jan 2018 - 15:35
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Mon, 15 Jan 2018 - 15:47) *
"In light of the above, no further consideration will be given and I must request payment is forwarded in settlement of the matter"

So The regulations require that they consider any and all challenges, They are not obliged to respond but they are required to consider. Also as worded What about formal representations and appeal

I agree, by stating that they won't consider any further representations until an NTO is served, they have unlawfully fettered their discretion.


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DancingDad
post Tue, 16 Jan 2018 - 17:45
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Other payment machines in the road and TEN in Tennant Street ?

They expect you to walk the full length ?

They ignore that specific parking bays have specific restrictions and that a motorist has no way of knowing whether they would be paying the correct amount except by reading the (missing) information on the damaged machine.
Knowing after the event that you could have gone on a three mile hike and paid at another machine does not excuse their signs that specifically ask you to pay at a machine that has been destroyed.
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misteral
post Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 12:03
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Not sure of the procedure. If I don't pay the £25 I'll get a NTO then I can challenge at arbitration. Is this correct?
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hcandersen
post Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 12:10
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http://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/unde...rcement-process

And if you got to adjudication you would also claim costs against the authority: their position is untenable continuing to resist your reps is nothing short of frivolous.
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cp8759
post Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 17:13
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QUOTE (misteral @ Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 12:03) *
Not sure of the procedure. If I don't pay the £25 I'll get a NTO then I can challenge at arbitration. Is this correct?

If you get an NTO, you have to send a challenge to the council in the first instance. If the council reject the challenge by issuing a Notice of Rejection, you can then appeal to the tribunal.


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DancingDad
post Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 18:04
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Tribunal in your case will be Traffic Penalty Tribunal (TPT)
Personal hearings are local (IBIS Hotel if you choose Brum) to you and you choose where.
Or can opt for a telephone hearing.
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misteral
post Tue, 30 Jan 2018 - 12:12
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Okay, two days to make my mind up. Pay the £25 reduced rate or wait for a NTO and challenge BCC? What's the consensus here? Solid case or not?
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DancingDad
post Tue, 30 Jan 2018 - 12:35
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I would not pay.
But cannot offer a 100% guarantee.
However, if a driver checks signs and tries to comply with them, being prevented by the council failing to maintain its kit, why should a driver be expected to traipse over half the city and find a working machine.
Especially as, for all they know, that machine may not be valid for where they were parked.

My only concern is if the traffic order says if machine out of order, parking is not allowed but even there, I would expect to see this on machine T&Cs.
Which were not available for you to read.
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misteral
post Tue, 30 Jan 2018 - 15:11
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Thanks, DD

Also, IIRC, all bays were occupied at the time, except two, one of which I used.
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hcandersen
post Tue, 30 Jan 2018 - 18:42
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Don't pay; their position is not correct in law and an adjudicator would be bound to find this, IMO.

But you are not at the discount or not stage, authorities regularly re-offer the discount even after considering representations.

Stay in and teach the ignorant bullies a lesson, IMO.

I would, but you're not me.
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misteral
post Thu, 1 Feb 2018 - 10:12
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Think I'll take a similar stance, @hcandersen.

Will keep you guys updated as and when.
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DancingDad
post Thu, 1 Feb 2018 - 14:40
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Been past there earlier today.
Machine still seems to be in bits.
Signs still pointed to it.
If you are in the area, further dated photos may help establish that B'ham don't give a toss about their duty to maintain means of payment or appropriate signs.
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misteral
post Wed, 25 Apr 2018 - 12:07
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It's been almost three months since I ignored their request for payment and have been waiting for the NTO to arrive which has not to date.

Is this normal?
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stamfordman
post Wed, 25 Apr 2018 - 12:46
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Can you check the status online - it may have gone missing.
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misteral
post Wed, 25 Apr 2018 - 13:04
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Just checked. It states there is an outstanding charge of £83 for this PCN.

I wonder where that figure came from? It was £50 or £25 discounted if I paid within 14 days, which I decided not to and wait for a NTO.
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stamfordman
post Wed, 25 Apr 2018 - 13:17
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QUOTE (misteral @ Wed, 25 Apr 2018 - 14:04) *
Just checked. It states there is an outstanding charge of £83 for this PCN.

I wonder where that figure came from? It was £50 or £25 discounted if I paid within 14 days, which I decided not to and wait for a NTO.



It's gone to debt recovery - check your V5C car reg doc for the address - I'd assumed it was OK as you got a challenge rejection.

Now you're missing the NTO and charge certificate and possibly order for recovery - debt registration is £8 + £75 charge certificate.

urgent you check this now.

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misteral
post Wed, 25 Apr 2018 - 13:35
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Doh! I changed the address on my license, which is my current address, but not on the VC5, I moved from the address on the VC5 not long after I bought the car in 2015 I suppose I better do that now.

The appeal rejection email/letter had my current address on it which I assumed would be used for a NTO.

Advice?

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stamfordman
post Wed, 25 Apr 2018 - 13:42
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Do the DVLA change now but it won't help with this.

When they issue the NTO they look up the DVLA registered keeper address. They cannot assume an address you sent on a challenge is that.

Given this is your fault i think I would just pay the £83 as it's still s fairly small sum and put it to bed before bailiffs arrive. But wait and see what others say.

It's partly our fault because we usually stress checking the V5C before going to NTO.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Wed, 25 Apr 2018 - 13:46
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DancingDad
post Wed, 25 Apr 2018 - 13:43
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Phone TEC now..today.
Find out when the warrant was issued and what date you need to get a witness statement in by.
https://courttribunalfinder.service.gov.uk/...ment-centre-tec
This is the court clearing house, don't try to discuss the PCN with them, the info above is needed.
Ask them to email you forms TE7 and TE9 (Witness Statement and Out of Time request)
The latter may not be needed, depends on whether WS deadline has passed.
Keep your fingers crossed but make that phone call.
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misteral
post Wed, 25 Apr 2018 - 13:52
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Cheers, DD

Waiting for them to answer now, if they do that is.

Will keep you posted.
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