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hcandersen
Posted on: Yesterday, 21:43


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You can therefore see that the council website refers to the PCN sent to ENTERPRISE and has nothing to do with you because yours would have a different number.

What has happened is that you received a PCN on the windscreen - that you didn't find it is not the issue.
The authority waited approx. 35 days and then sent the registered keeper - Enterprise- a Notice to Owner. This would take us to the end of September.
Enterprise wrote to you on 5 October having received the NTO around 2nd. The NTO gave 28 days to pay, et voila you get to 30 October. Enterprise will have submitted reps and until these are accepted their PCN is live.

Expect a PCN within the next 7-10 days.


  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1425604 · Replies: 21 · Views: 151

hcandersen
Posted on: Yesterday, 21:25


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OP, pl don't tell us our business!

Just answer the following please:
Have you received a PCN in your name from the authority?
Is the address in Enterprise's letter yours exactly?
What are the last 3 digits of the citation number referred to in Enterprise's letter?
What are the last 3 digits of the PCN on the council website?

  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1425591 · Replies: 21 · Views: 151

hcandersen
Posted on: Yesterday, 12:09


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@cp, but they gave a preliminary view to which adj Houghton had regard and did not disregard - he just disagreed- therefore it cannot or should not be disregarded, but one may disagree with it, as you do.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1425349 · Replies: 18 · Views: 339

hcandersen
Posted on: Yesterday, 11:26


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That you'd win at adjudication is not in doubt, the only issue being whether you would get costs in your favour.

If it were me (and I am engaged in this at present with my county council) after you win I would also formally complain through the council's complaints system on the basis that their actions are likely to lead to maladministration, therefore ultimately bringing this within the scope of the LG Ombudsman.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1425341 · Replies: 43 · Views: 1,486

hcandersen
Posted on: Yesterday, 10:06


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Neither.

Presumably we're referring to *****863, yes?

In which case a Charge Certificate has been issued.

The formal procedure is that you can do nothing with the CC and must wait until this is escalated by the authority to an Order for Recovery at which point you would be able to get the matter reset to the PCN stage, see the following:

https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/unde...rcement-process

So, option 1 is to play a straight bat and wait for the OfR. But the obvious issue of the PCN having gone astray could resurface with the OfR doing similar which would then get messy.


Option 2, which is what I suggest, is to write to the authority, refer to the PCN, say you've only become aware of this because it's a linked PCN to PCN ******** but that you didn't receive it, accept that the normal procedure would be for you to wait for an OfR and submit a witness statement but ask whether they'd be happy to short-cut the inevitable, and save the court registration fee, and resend you the PCN.
For their records your address is:
**********

Do not argue the toss about the contravention and leave your ideas of 56 days in an air-tight container and place in a darkened room.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1425303 · Replies: 25 · Views: 371

hcandersen
Posted on: Yesterday, 08:13


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Originally you posted:

So I got out the car as it was a hot day and waited to get hold of them.

Which has now become:
I had to wait for it to clear which takes about 20 minutes. It’s not an exact science.

No mention of 'waiting to get hold of them'.

So if the OP's argument is sound then they could continue to breakdown and then self-select how long they'd remain stationary (engine recovery being 'not an exact science').

Also I don't understand the significance of 'a hot day'. The pressurised side of the cooling system gets to 90 deg within minutes of starting, irrespective of the ambient temp.

If you can challenge without risking the discount, then do so if you wish.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1425254 · Replies: 14 · Views: 185

hcandersen
Posted on: Yesterday, 07:48


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You've paid the original penalty and added charges. Nothing is outstanding.

Get your V5C.

1. What is the 'docref' date, this is the date on which DVLA changed the entry in their register.
2. What does it say regarding notifying DVLA in the event of a change of details i.e. that if the new keeper does not receive a nee V5C within ** days of notifying DVLA then they must contact them. This is the only detail I need.

There is a saying that if you act in haste, you may repent at leisure. Don't fall into this trap. You need all relevant dates one of which is the docref date. IMO you do not need the backstory because TEC are not an Agony Aunt, they have a legal duty and only need data relevant to that context.

I think all you need is 2 actual dates: the PCN and docref. That's it.

The docref won't tell TEC when you applied to DVLA, but the V5C will say something along the lines of if you've not heard with 30 days.

So you'd work back. DVLA updated my V5C on ****. I cannot remember ( if true) the exact date on which I notified them but according to the instructions on the V5C this must have been around ****.
The PCN (and presumably all subsequent notices) was issued on ****.
For 5 months the authority have been pursuing me on a parallel plane with no prospect of convergence on their part because they relied on what turned out to be out of date DVLA data.
That the enforcement agents established my address with apparent ease suggests this could and should have been dealt with much earlier if a little lateral thinking had been applied by the authority.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1425250 · Replies: 12 · Views: 175

hcandersen
Posted on: Yesterday, 07:00


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Permits have to be dislayed because that's one of their stated terms of use. Display is not required to be stated on the sign.

Permit identifier, pay at machine and display ticket, see items 7 and 2 of the Part 4 Sign Table:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/4/made
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1425242 · Replies: 8 · Views: 149

hcandersen
Posted on: Sun, 14 Oct 2018 - 20:45


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I parked, left the car, went shopping and returned.

You didn't phone anyone or any body for assistance, you just went shopping while your car cooled down. And overheating affected your car how? And did it actually overheat or was the temp sensor faulty - happy memories of my new Mk1 Scirocco c1977 ( same VAG group, maybe the problem's still there!!)

I'd pay the discount and just move on, Christmas is coming and you probably have better things to do with your time than post repeatedly here.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1425183 · Replies: 14 · Views: 185

hcandersen
Posted on: Sun, 14 Oct 2018 - 16:01


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The 2nd and 3rd photos show that in the space of 6 seconds a stunned snail with heavy shopping and a limp would have travelled further i.e. you were stationary.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1425120 · Replies: 8 · Views: 120

hcandersen
Posted on: Sun, 14 Oct 2018 - 12:44


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I like to convey to adjudicators that the the appellant is human and not a barrack-room lawyer. They are not looking for advocacy, they're looking for humanity and credibility.

I have found that a certain amount of levity works. I can still remember the faces of the Employment Tribunal judges at the London South centre who asked whether I was legally qualified, to which I replied no, unless watching Judge Judy every day qualified me. Their smiles suggested that if the matter was to be determined on the margins I would have their support.

We won.

But each to their own.

For example, I would write to the council now and ask what is the purpose of the 4p charge and does the revenue fall within the ring-fenced parking revenue account. I don't see that any answer or none at all would do anything other than help the OP.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1425076 · Replies: 33 · Views: 790

hcandersen
Posted on: Sun, 14 Oct 2018 - 11:32


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I would suggest adding that the case in question is an even worse example than that which was determined by the court. At least in that case the unlawful surcharge was capped at 1.3% whereas in this case the unlawful surcharge is at the whim of the authority being the product an unknown number of 4ps and service charges depending upon the convolutions of and time taken to navigate the authority's payment system. I am certain that the adjudicator would have experienced similar in their life with the strains of Handel's Water Music clocking-up untold access and service charges while 'oh hold' to an organisation which 'values their custom'.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1425054 · Replies: 33 · Views: 790

hcandersen
Posted on: Sun, 14 Oct 2018 - 10:06


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OP, no matter how many times you insert 'hire agreement' into this doc, it isn't. In fact it's nothing like a hiring agreement, to use the correct term. And this is not what a 'vehicle-hire firm' would issue, its terms purport to go well beyond the scope of anything that an arm's-length VHC's hiring agreement would ever contain.

IMO, this is part of the employee's contract of employment, even if on the so-called gig economy.

And as for insurance! And what happens if payment of the correct amount is not made by the specified time?

Have you had this looked at by a legally qualified person? If you have, then their English grammar leaves something to be desired:

I accept, not I except
One week's rental, not one weeks'
The same week's notice, not weeks' notice.

And so on.

But you say that this is what you've used previously.

Have you used with TfL?


  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1425032 · Replies: 8 · Views: 197

hcandersen
Posted on: Sun, 14 Oct 2018 - 07:16


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OP, let's cut to the chase.

So I got out the car as it was a hot day and waited to get hold of them.

So exactly what did you do when you got out of the car?
How soon after receiving the PCN did you leave the parking bay?
How was the car re-started?

Your problem is convincing sceptics that you didn't just stop, leave the car, carry out some local business and return..but too late, your risk-management having failed you on this occasion.

And pl don't think all you have to do is to tell the authority you broke down and everyone will live happily ever after, this is not going to happen.

You are behind the 8-ball and will need proof of entitlement to any exemption under the traffic order.

And you cannot draft a challenge to until we've seen the PCN.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1425010 · Replies: 14 · Views: 185

hcandersen
Posted on: Sun, 14 Oct 2018 - 07:05


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OP, you must, must, must be clear.

An incorrect address is not a 'wrong' or 'old' address.

Examples:
Zip held address ABCD1, whether you lived there or not.
They advised authority ABCE1

This is notifying wrong address.

Zip held ABCD1
You lived at ABCD2
Zip notified authority of ABCD1

This is notifying correct address, that is the one they were required to provide, but it was incorrect because you didn't live there and had not updated Zip.

In either case, authority must use the address supplied - which they've accepted as part of their decision to cancel Zip's PCN - and continue to use until notified otherwise by a competent person.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1425009 · Replies: 31 · Views: 460

hcandersen
Posted on: Sat, 13 Oct 2018 - 14:43


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This doesn't answer the question.

What address did zipcar give the authority and did they use it?

You seem to be suggesting that 194 only came into the equation with the enforcement notice.

Post code is irrelevant for delivery, it's a sorting tool. The top line is the all-important part.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1424863 · Replies: 31 · Views: 460

hcandersen
Posted on: Sat, 13 Oct 2018 - 11:33


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OP, you might have a serious problem here.

PCN dated 13 Sept.
Last day of 28-day period was 10 Oct.
You have not suggested you've challenged, therefore the system could be grinding on.

Submit a challenge NOW. Just say you didn't see the sign, albeit you thought you looked closely, and wrongly thought that given the poor state of the yellow lines no restriction was in force.


This would do several things:
1. It might get them to respond and re-offer the discount;
2. They might just reject.
3. It could delay the issuing of a NTO.

Winding forward to the NTO - to whom will it be addressed? If you've only just bought the van, have DVLA changed the registered keeper to you? You must deal with this point.

As regards grounds for reps after a NTO, cp's point is even worse than we normally see and is a clear procedural impropriety - I think: it doesn't actually make sense on its own. I think someone c****d-up proofreading the PCN.

Word for word:

'The owner must follow instructions on the NTO'
'Failure to pay at this stage.....'

B******s!
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1424829 · Replies: 13 · Views: 156

hcandersen
Posted on: Sat, 13 Oct 2018 - 11:10


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I can't understand the point here.

Did the authority use the address supplied by the hiring company is step one.

It's not being suggested that the OP moved from ***B to ***A or vice versa, is it?

IMO, the OP doesn't need to go any further than did the authority use the address supplied by the hiring company - whether this is where they lived is secondary, it couldn't have reached the OP even at their previous address if it was addressed wrongly.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1424823 · Replies: 31 · Views: 460

hcandersen
Posted on: Sat, 13 Oct 2018 - 09:48


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With respect to PMB, the quoted decision doesn't help the OP as much as is suggested.

The salient parts appear to be that by a majority the Court of Appeal gave a preliminary view that all that was required to establish the contravention was that a vehicle was parked when a bay was suspended. They dismissed the council's appeal on procedural grounds alone.

Adj Houghton took the minority view of the court.

In any event, OP IMO you must write back for clarification of the (deliberately?) ambiguous statement 'Before we suspend parking bays, we have to put up warning signs and we did this'

What does 'we did this' mean? You must get them to state when the signs warning of the suspension of the bay in question were erected in the bay. Be absolutely specific on this point - you will see that it was a material factor in the quoted decision.

You will note that they stated 'we have to put up warning signs'. And with respect to their Lordships and Adj Houghton THIS is where the argument starts. IF the council's policy is to place warning signs then a CEO who is aware of this issues a PCN without that policy having been complied with is acting beyond their delegated powers and the PCN is therefore void. The alternative is that if the CEO was unaware then the authority must subsequently cancel the PCN. Councils are not (should not be) the wild west; officers act within delegated powers, not on a whim.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1424805 · Replies: 18 · Views: 339

hcandersen
Posted on: Sat, 13 Oct 2018 - 08:16


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OP, pl use our ( the legal) terms, not yours.

You have not appealed as far as I know. You have submitted an OOT application.

Presumably this was rejected and you have the authority's grounds for objecting.

We must know the date of TEC's decision letter and a copy of the authority's objection.

Yes, this dotting Is and crossing Ts, but this is our bread and butter, and I'm hungry!
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1424791 · Replies: 11 · Views: 368

hcandersen
Posted on: Sat, 13 Oct 2018 - 08:07


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OP, too much unnecessary info.

Your only issue is I did not receive the PCN.

Your SD is therefore did not receive the PCN.

Your OOT reason:
On ** my neighbour gave me the enclosed Enforcement Notice.
As you will see, it is addressed to **** ( just the first line of your address), however, I live at *** first line of your address. I can only presume that the authority have used this incorrect address for all other correspondence, hence why I have received none.
I have no idea how the authority used the wrong address given that this was supplied to them by the hiring company ( forget council tax and anything else, these are irrelevant. The authority had to use the address supplied to them in the first instance. On this point, do you have anything from Avis to you with your correct address - you posted I was only made aware by zip car them selves on 29/06/2017, so you might have something.

Do not send your OOT without clearing it here first.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1424789 · Replies: 31 · Views: 460

hcandersen
Posted on: Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 20:30


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Agreed.

Forget the contravention, it's a second-order issue. The main point is procedural.

I'll come back tomorrow on this point.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1424711 · Replies: 59 · Views: 1,772

hcandersen
Posted on: Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 11:38


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OP, can we please put the contravention to one side for the moment.

[The authority] acknowledge that they 'sent the NOR to an incorrect address'
( Case summary page 3, para. 7 refers)

What?..

When did you tell us this? We cannot see because you've redacted the address. But you have a copy of the NOR, so what's the problem with this?

Frankly, s*d the contravention, I want to drill down into this revelation. How could this address be wrong, but not the CC and OfR? And if they addressed these to a different address, then who had custody of the brain cell that day and forgot to twig that if this was not the address to which the NOR was sent then everything else was procedural garbage!
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1424504 · Replies: 59 · Views: 1,772

hcandersen
Posted on: Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 10:40


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From: Woking
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almost as if they knew they didn't have a leg to stand on but did everything they could to get me to pay anyway...


"You might very well think that; I couldn't possibly comment" biggrin.gif

  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1424492 · Replies: 40 · Views: 1,264

hcandersen
Posted on: Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 08:30


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?
IMO, it's perfectly compliant. What else could it be, it couldn't be 09.00.01 because this is not a permitted expression of time.

On Mon-Fri, up to 9am permits apply, 9am - 4pm they don't.

Just make a simple challenge asking for discretion - new permit holder who presumably lives in the road - just getting used to the variety of signs used etc.

  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1424442 · Replies: 8 · Views: 149

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